Gate driver is the only element which bootstrap voltage required to turn the gate of the MOSFET, it does no more than if the pin is high turn on if low turn off. Don’t mix stuff.
InstaSpin is an algorithm for controlling signal modulation, you don’t need DRV for it.
It’s really the intent of the license you should aim to follow. While it seems correct; that Trampa writeup is horrible.
Say some smart guy at Enertion came up with a way in software to stop DRVs from blowing, then tried to keep that fix exclusive to focboxes. That would suck as it’d have significant community benefit, it’s also what the GPL aims to prevent by requiring you to hand over the modified source under the same license. Really if you have a device or application that includes GPLed code, you should have reasonably easy access to the source.
There’s a stack of examples out there. Here’s how BMW complied in one case.
BMW has sent Terence Eden a DVD containing GPL-licenced code used in its electric i3 model .
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Hi, I don’ get the point why everyone freaks out over a 10cm high hurdle that needs to be taken. Just wanted to help and create awareness. It is not a big deal to fulfil the GPL license. There is probably a good reason why the GPL wants you to act accordingly. otherwise the code will drift from OS to quasi-proprietary. The source code needs to resemble the exact software found on the device.
If you sell hardware with OS- Firmware you convey it. Section 6 GPL.
I would like to know if selling a hardware product which runs a firmware is considered as conveying that firmware.
Yes. The binaries are inside the device and are therefore redistributed with the device aka. conveyed.
Simple example: You buy a device in order to re-distribute it. You have access to the firmware sources on the device, since the GPL requires that the wholeseler you buy from has the obligation to provide you with the source code, the information that the device contains GPLed code and the GPL itself. Since you have the code, you can make it public (best practice) or send out a written offer to supply it on demand. Since you convey the work, you need to make sure that the customer is informed about the fact that the device runs on, or includes OS software and you need to make sure that the customer can have access to the sources and get the GPL delivered with the product.
The obligations get passed on from manufacturers to wholesalers and distributors. Each of them have the same obligations.
It is very easy to fulfil these requirements. Basically an email to the customer can sort out that matter. You get something for free, as long as you fulfil the license. That is not to much of a demand. Some additional information on the website will also help.
Frank
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esk8ers don’t care about this stuff Frank! they certainly don’t want to get emails about license’s etc.
People just want affordable reliable & programmable motor controllers & most importantly they just want to skate.
I suggest you rethink your approach to this subject, you are taking it too far with your legal rhetoric & price gouging tactics & in the end, you will eventually be shunned by the majority of people in this community because of these actions. You may go down in history as the guy who actually killed the VESC project. - not the guy who made it better/great!.
It is questionable whether your actions are of any benefit to VESC/BV, they seem to be of no meaningful benefit to the community or to the advancement of the technology itself & If I were BV I would fire you & distance myself from you and get back to serving the community. - Ben never wanted this mess.
Also, a friendly reminder, this market is very fickle, the second a better motor controller becomes available VESC is dead. There is actually no brand loyalty to the name VESC - actually, you could argue VESC isn’t a brand - it was originally a “community-based-technological-movement” driven by passionate people who just wanted better electric skateboards. What we all created together as a community was very impressive.
Don’t get me wrong - BV definitely deserves praise and probably money too, but he only got this community so far then stopped to focus on VESC6!
- if not for @jacobbloy for taking the risk, doing the 1st ever group buy, making windows & mac compatible software & getting beta units into the hands of esk8rs
- if not for @chaka who was able to identify many hardware weakness & make the VESC more robust & reliable.
- if not for @Blasto for adding, even more, hardware improvements, doing ongoing testing & developing & making form factor changes to improve thermal properties
- if not for @Ackmaniac for spending hours & hours trying to tweak software & develop apps to get better results & functionality
- if not for the thousands of beta tester that used the VESC and reported back to vendors about problems…
If these people didn’t have the passion & want to make the vesc better for everyone the VESC would have died in 2015
Let me leave you with some advice, I always ask myself this question in business, how can my actions benefit all parties involved? WIN-WIN-WIN
Frank, sometimes I think all you are trying to do is WIN for yourself, you forgot that everyone else in the game needs to win as well & that is why you will actually end up being the loser.
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From may!!
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Hi Jason, is it really so hard to send your customers a mail, telling them that the device runs OS software, attached the license. Is it so hard to point the users to the source code? If you are (as a user) not interested in that kind of stuff you don’t read it, simple as that. The license is the license and there are good reasons why it is written the way it is written. The brains behind it are probably quite clever.
You are saying: The users don’t care, so lets not care about the license. It just annoys them, since they are skate brains. I am saying: The user needs to be able to make that decision himself. You don’t harm anyone sending out an e-mail and offering the sources. You harm someone if you fail to do so.
The matter doesn’t need to be debated any further. The GPL is applied to the code and it is binding. Your personal attitude towards it, or the uses attitude towards it has zero effect on the license. There is simply no choice on the table, since it is a binding license agreement. You accept it the moment you convey a GPLed work. If you violate it you are doing copyright infringement. If you do that twice, any involved copyright holder can terminate your license once and for forever. Section 8 GPL.
There are multiple parties involved holding a copyright. If you are talking WIN-WIN-WIN, then you should respect other peoples rights! Otherwise you put yourself into a WIN situation while messing around with someone else’s copyright. This is the exact reason why the GPL has been written up and is used so widely. The obligations make sure that the code stays OS and visible. It is a license with a viral character to assure that things stay open, visible and workable.
I can’t understand why people freak out over the content of the GPL license. It is quite a clever piece of paper. I din’t write it BTW Jason, although you want to give the impression that I am responsible that the code is licensed under the GPL. Sorry, not my fault. I Just wanted to create some awareness and summarize some basic information. The license works in favour of the USER, and those who want to work with the code. In consequence I would not complain to much about it. Because of this license you can use the code for your boards. The only reason to complain about it is, if you want to use the code proprietary. Since no one wants to do that I guess, there is no reason to complain.
It is so easy to comply with the GPL, that it is hardly worth talking about it. It is so easy to comply with the GPL, that is hardly worth violating it.
Frank
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I just want to say that @onloop is 100% right in this. Benjamin 100% deserves credit! I’ll be the first to say this! He deserves to have large financial backing to fortune develop. The biggest thing is so many others in the community also contributed to the vesc being a success. In 2015 we did the first production of just 50pcs and struggles to sell them all. We did it at no profit to support the community because it was about time for some thing better to come out. Benjamin was getting flooded with questions asking for help to program and assemble vesc (by some who should never or had never used a soldering iron) we pushed and pushed and I worked to get drivers working for other operating systems and did how to videos to take the strain away from Benjamin.
I had a lot of conversations with him about the product and how I could help. I put so many hours/money into rewriting BLDC tool to seporate the logic from the ui to allow the development of the android and iOS apps (the point of vesc tool being developed) all to complement the community and the vesc.
A large % of the world can’t code and can’t or won’t use Linux. It was a learning curve for so many. The day that BLDC tool windows and OS X was supported the vesc blew up and so many who couldn’t see them selfs using such a great peace of hardware because of restriction could finally use it and they wanted it so diy stores took advantage of it. Because sadly at this poin Benjamin didn’t want to do any production and after his run of 100 pcs he saw the effort that went into it and didn’t see the benefit in doing this.
we saw another massive increase in vesc through the free publicity that it was getting on this forum, from 100’s to 1000’s of users talking about it praising or complaining about faults. This led to 10,000’s owning vesc.
The vesc and the reason for licensing was made huge because of this community and you took it away.
I 100% think that each vesc sold should have a contribution to Benjamin and the only way to track this might be through licensing and vesc tool. But if the community the chance to have what they helped to develop as a brand and let them keep using the vesc 4.12 and profit of the vesc 6 with its amazing benifits in the automotive or other big industries. The diy community is small and wont give Benjamin $60,000 a year to develop while the price of a vesc 6 is $350 each. But they did when it was being sold $150 each.
There buying diy because it’s better for cheaper. Not better with high price tags and licensing.
I know your talking about the GPL licensing and not the trade mark but as I said the diy community arnt who you need to be informing about this.
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I personally haven’t touched any thing to do with with the vesc in so many months maybe I shouldn’t comment.
Also Ben’s getting money from me in January anyway. A backpayment, if you will, for the e-switches. Because I do actually have the eswitches made at a factory and the hardware for that is open source. There is no software involved, and i did make a minor upgrade to it, but it is his hardware and in spite of only moving maybe 80 of them and paying to have them made and burning up half of them trying to figure out why they sucked and talking to people and testing and burning and testing and falling on my face a few times, I’m going to send him a percentage of the sales.
Not because i feel morally obligated or am being forced to comply. But because i WANT TO support him. The same way I WANT to support this entire community and ALL of the hard work they’ve done. The same way they have supported me.
Ben wouldn’t be the INFAMOUS BENJAMIN VEDDER (reverb on 11) if it wasn’t for this community, I wouldn’t be in business if it wasn’t for this community, @onloop would be at home on the shopping channel while his wife does brain surgery and @chaka would be making cabinets for people who don’t know what the fuck they want in their kitchen. Chris chaput might even have hair. Utter pandemonium, dogs and cats living together, total protonic reversal.
everyone here is responsible for everyone else being here. We all support each other anyway, take your lawyers and fuck off.
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So now Benjamin Vedder is going to be using his precious time policing (instead of developing), vendors from all over the world who are selling a vesc based product, to check they are sending an email (that nobody will read) explaining the license, so that he can be sure they are in compliance with the license?
& Further to this, when they are ALL found to be breaching this rule, he is going to terminate them, essentially destroying the entire market and driving demand to the Chinese suppliers who don’t give a shit about the project or Vedder?
Surely his time & yours would be better spent trying to make the VESC6 a viable product in the market?
I fully understand that everything you are preaching is written law, But this is so backward… Do you realize If you didn’t trademark the name VESC - than it would have been self-explanatory to all people globally buying VESC that is was indeed a VEDDER.E.S.C - Vendors always wanted Vedder to get the recognition, that’s why vendors never invented new names. But ironically you forced them to not use the name VESC.
It so stupid i feel i need to summarise, You forced vendors to stop using the name VESC (which seriously diluted the brand) & now you are forcing the same vendors to tell everyone, in a special email, that it is actually a VESC! (Because you clearly want that publicity again) - & if they don’t you will terminate them
It seems you made a strategic error, i would fire you if you were my business consultant.
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Maybe instead of buying a VESC6 we should all just send Ben $10 and buy a fucking FocBox.
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You clearly don’t understand the matter and mix things up that have nothing to do with another Jason.
This thread is about the GPL and creating some awareness. It is not even specifically related to a certain OS project.
A software under the GPL license may contain multiple copyrights from various authors. A few have been named here already. The GPL license has been applied by all of them for given reasons.
Any of them have the same rights when it comes to copyright infringements. In consequence it is good to know that and educate yourself about the matter when you trade or convey GPLed stuff. You can still make the decision to simply not care about the fact, close your eyes and hope that no one will care about what you do. This is totally up to you.
However, it is simply stupid to act like that, since it is totally unnecessary to do so.
Still don’t get the point why it is so hard to inform your customers and give them access to the sources.
It is no big deal.
In that mail or manual etc. you simply need to tell people that the thing contains OS-Code, this is the license and this is how you can get access to the sources.
Seams to be a very complicated matter…
Frank
it’s there, it’s accessible, always has been, always will be…
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That is a link to Benjamins website. What has that to do with the matter?
This is as big a bunch of bullshit as I’ve ever seen…
…yet, we have threats…
@trampa you cant talk out of both sides of your mouth and expect people to have any respect for what you say. This began with you attempting to stop people from using the name VESC. Well, you did that. Now your seeing that FocBox is the name getting talked about so you wanna get VESC back in the mix. Too bad. THis whole enterprise since you took over has been a mistake and no good for anyone, especially Ben.
@onloop just do you brother, Trampa hasn’t done anything to benefit anyone, you have. I’m not trying to put a halo on you, just saying that your products have made electric skateboards much more viable and available to the masses. The only reason I’m even in this conversation is because I hate to see people with money create a ‘legal’ situation where they can bully others into increasing their profit margins.
An open request to Ben Vedder: Dude, you gotta get out here and say something. Frank is ruining your name and is essentially guaranteeing you a substantial loss in profits. If you would just make a statement to say what YOU want this whole issue could be resolved once and for all.
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It is not!!! Vedder copied the design over from Fetcher on Endless Sphere. Put your pennies away
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Oh. Well then.
More skittles for me!
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That’s a hell of a game changer…
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