Cheap EMP BRUSHLESS … Guess what??? I literally just burned one right now pushing my little girl up a hill in Texas lol good thing I brought my emergency kit lol
To some degree, that’s true. I love my carvon, and in reality, yes, its a slower starter than a motor in satellite config, but it will kill most motors top speed. torque vs top speed, and all that video did was test torque. Let me race you around a track with my carvons, and I bet I’ll win.
Speed is irrelevant. I can go 50kph getting towed buy a car on a long board same result. The real test as @onloop mentioned in a post was: can a board continuously do 30-40kph for about 10 kilometers.
My interests are not for me but for a customer who gave me an outline and because I know him personally I want to charge him the least amount of money possible (aka I’m not asking for $$$ for my labor).
You have experience building motors so I think you can understand why things cost more & how that all adds together to make a better motor that has a higher price. By making small 2-3% improvements on ten different things you get a 20-30% cost increase.
The question is where do you draw the line, my motors are not actually that expensive in comparison to some. There are some motors which cost nearly double but are half the size for fuck sake.
EXAMPLE:
RCTIGER MOTOR - half the size, nearly double the price of R-SPEC 6355
http://www.rctigermotor.com/html/2013/Antigravity_Motors_0916/78.html
Here is a good exercise, ask yourself the opposite question. What could I do to make motors cheaper?
I’ll help you out with some answers
HOW TO MAKE CHEAPER MOTORS.
- Machine the body (& everything) with lower tolerances.
- Use lower quality softer materials to decrease CNC machine time.
- Use a smaller stator
- Use less copper
- Use smaller magnets and lower grade raw material
- Use stators that don’t have high-grade silicone steel. The best ones are normally imported from Japan
- Don’t custom make the stainless steel shaft allowing easy pulley installation
- Don’t add 5.5mm connectors
- Don’t add 1M of high strand count 12AWG silicone insulated wire
- Don’t pay to have the motors waterproof treated.
- Remove certain parts and replace with glue
- Pay unskilled employees to hand wind instead of investing hundreds of thousands of dollars in computer controlled winding machines.
- Close down the QC department.
- Use china grade bearings made with low tolerance.
If everyone thing above saved you just $0.50c per motor your motor would be much cheaper right? ALSO, If you didn’t have to honor your warranty because it clearly states as soon as the product is modified or used in a manner that was not intended (aka esk8) the warranty is void… you would do it right? who gives a fuck if the motor fails early? All these folks who have hobbyking motors dying on them mid ride don’t tend to get replacements. DOA is different but once its installed kiss your warranty goodbye.
I am an innovator, I strive for perfection and I will not sacrifice quality to increase profits or to simply grab the low hanging fruit by claiming to be the cheapest, “the cheapest stuff possible” is what fucked the hoverboard market.
So please everyone go and buy your motors and eboard parts at the hobby store… I’ll be here ready for you when you need legit gear and want to build a board that is equal quality to what you get from mainstream brands like boosted boards.
FINALLY, to cap this rant off, I promise, when the economy of scale improves for my small business, then will I lower my prices making my premium gear more affordable whilst still having exceptional quality.
Also, if you didn’t notice already the economy of scale is already in effect, R-SPEC 6355 now only costs $105USD when bundled with a mono mech kit… SEE HERE
@Hummie some words of advice for you, make sure your hubs are exceptional quality & never fail!.. because you are (were) essentially selling them at cost price, there’s no buffer for servicing your warranty, it only needs approx 10% failure rate to cripple your business, draining your prototyping budget, stifling further development & forcing you to close your doors leaving your customers high & dry… is this your hobby or a business?
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Great product placement. 9/11
You’re entitled to not give specifics about what’s inside and many sellers don’t but when you start a forum so that people can understand how these things work people will ask especially when you claim them to be better. When another fan starts telling us how great they are it comes up again. How bout just telling us what temp the magnets get to and how thin the stator laminations are. That would say a lot and knowing the max temp would help a lot. Saying things like tighter manufacturing tolerances is empty until you tell us what is tighter, the airgap is what? and the bearings are they press fit or slide? Just saying your stuff is premium leaves us in the dark. I think everyone likes your motors, in fact they’d all probably rather one than the Tacon, but your claims go over the top and they aren’t backed up with real evidence. The only thing that’s clearly better is the motor leads are flexible and it’s keywayed already. The things you point to in the video: balancing blue epoxy, a placement holder for the magnets, insulating epoxy on the stator…these are all more than common.
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Basically what I was implying. What I have gathered so far after additional research is that the SK3 6374 motoes are fine and are MUCH more cost effective at 37 volts that Enertion motors. I will use 168/192 KV motors on some old laptop batteries that are also cheap and solve the battery problem.
Just because a motor has all the extra warranties and fancy colors on it does not make it worth the extra $80-100. Plenty of people use smaller motors that the SK3s and are doing fine as long as they are smart and cautious. Thanks for the people who contributed with meaningful inputs that will save some money.
Sk3 is great a tacon is way beter in my opinion tho
It probably is but its a smaller size which is why people buy the SK3
is that really significant tho efficiency wise?
I would say yes because its a bigger motor and can handle 40+ volts
hmmm ok so if a person were to weigh about 125ibs and ride uphills would an alien esc work?
DUDE! honestly, I don’t think this technical shit matters to anyone! Also, maybe people keep forgetting… I am just some dude who builds eboards in my garage… none of that shit means anything to me. It either works the way I want it to work or its shit. I am not running special tests on the bench or using advanced formulas.
Please EVERYONE remember, I am not an engineer!.. I couldn’t give a fuck about any of that technical bullshit! I-build-ride-repeat-improve you geeks spend way too much time arguing about pointless stuff sitting behind your desk… more testing, more innovating! less bullshit.
My development process is really, really complicated… are you ready?.. it’s ground breaking! please sit down…
I TEST STUFF IN THE REAL WORLD! I kept buying & testing motors until I found ones that didn’t fuck up when stressed, my 115kg mate rode them up a very steep hills over & over! I strapped weight to my back and rode up hills… Simple stuff really. I tested 43mm, than 50mm, than 63mm diameter I bought from NTM, SK3, SAITE, EMP, ALIEN, plus a few others I can’t even remember…
They were all shit, why? because they eventually failed. Something was not good enough to make them last. What was it? I have no idea? they just failed…
What I do know is that these R-SPEC motors are rock solid, they pass the test. They are big, well-built motors with a few nice added features, They also have some visually identifiable internal characteristics when compared to cheaper motors from the hobby store, maybe this is the difference maybe it isn’t… but there is not some magic formula at work. They are just bigger & made better… it’s really simple stuff. Bigger motors are generally just better.
Nothing I do in my garage is magic… I don’t run some formulas and magically create a product…It’s just that I have spent a lot of time & money looking for & testing for the best stuff available.
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Naw alien is just too risky. I assume your a highschooler? Just grab a tacon on 6s and you should be fine. that should be $120 for motor plus esc and and extra $60 for batteries and charger. If you are like me and about 75kg and have 15%+ hills I have a fat 149kv on 6S with more volts coming in and will be 11S when I get a vesc
damnnn my weight gave it away. Haha but yea thanks didnt mean to bother you or hijack this thread
Really now, you just lost some credibility. You are getting angry when you shouldn’t be. Quite unnecessary.
love this guy he just cuts the bullshit and gets straight to the point wish there were more store owners like this
dude… haha… I am not angry… I am just trying to get people to understand why my motors are so expensive compared to cheaper ones… they cost more! they are better! simple!
Like I said, I’m happy to sell cheaper stuff that fails if that’s what people want? I bet you when they fail people will ask for better though!
NOTE: excessively using the word fuck & shit… shouldn’t/doesn’t infer anger… come to Australia and you will quickly learn that.
go to any blue collar work place and you see fuck thrown around more then a canadian says maple syrup and eh, i would know im both.
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As Osod has said there are, formulas and basic principles that can be manipulated to eliminate guess work…Which you are brushing off as not “real world”.
I would like to quote a Mr. Gordon Ramsay: “You are a busy idiot!”
While you do not have the resources like HobbyKing to mass produce cheap reliable outrunners, there are things that are unnecessary. Some things like water proofing, 5.5mm connectors, silicone wires. engraving, aesthetics ect are unnecessary. They bog down the price competition and will not be used by a majority of people. You said you always over engineer by a lot. I would be running 5% under the max load than under %30-40. There is such a thing as “GOOD ENOUGH”.
Please elaborate. Is the expenditure of materials justified OR NOT? I feel you try to project the fear that hobby grade motors can fail on the upper end when the load is just so big. This is true, but a majority of people weigh under 80kg and dont ride above 35kph. This kind of relates to computers and how you can overclock a CPU or GPU at the expense of higher energy consumption/heat dispersion.I dont need to buy a $1000 graphics card, only a $100 cooling system.
While you intentions are good (making a idiot proof motor that can handle anything) sometimes people will want to sacrifice some performance for a cheaper product that can do the same thing at half the price. Your “development process” is just throw money at it and thus make it bigger. This works, but not for everyone.