To be honest I think people can go for dual drive single vesc if used with hub motor. I didnt notice the traction difference.
Im going to add my two cents I had a similar case to the one this guy experienced and a completely different reaction
I placed an order for to vescs on april for my build im doing a dual drive board but then later about two weeks later i decided to build an additional board for my wife so i needed a third vesc i emailed enertion and asked if i could add a third vesc to my order to get the discounted preorder price the replied to me telling me that they couldnt add a third vesc but i could a cancel my order and do three vescs in one order or just order a third. Guess what I did? I placed an order for a third vesc. I didnt throw a fit at @onloop or whoever replied to me. They game me options and i did what they offered and said was possible. People there is such thing as customer service as in what is reasonable and possible for a business to do and there is “I want it my way and only my way because its what i want and i should get what i want”
Guys understand that as far as being open with information enertion or jason have done a good job, you have to understand when they say they dont know when they will have stuff it literally means that they dont know how long manufacture will take how long samples will take if there will be problems or delay on that side or even shipping delays.
I give enertion props for being open with the information they have given and hope that all the issues they have had straiten out and to other customers dont blame the company for something that you couldnt get how you wanted be an adult and take the options you are given
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There is a degree of engineering that still needs to be done. There is some play in certain components of the vesc, and you can spec them higher (which chaka does), so they can take more abuse then otherwise expected. Chaka’s heat sinks have also drastically brought heat down, something no other producer is doing. I would say those are engineering decisions which have worked out well for chaka, and his customers. So there is still some degree of engineering.
The hing with apple is, you can get customer service with a click. They are quick to get back to you, where as enertion takes days, in my last case, almost a week. That’s why this situation came to fruition, and comparing this to something a apple is a bit disingenuous.
Everyone here is forgetting what creating this situation, which was a lack of communication. This is something that gets harder for small businesses, and it used to be better. They have grown, and it’s hard to scale up, but the second part of this is the attitude. Even if your customer makes unreasonable requests, or is a dick to you (not saying this is the case here. but), there’s no reason to talk to a customer the way Jason is.
Why is it you don’t see any of enertions competitors getting drawn into battles like this on here or people complaining about their customer service, yet they are on this forum, and deal with customers on here. I have seen 1 negative thread about diy ever, never anything negative about chaka or carvon. But there’s been so many involving enertion.
The attitude of Jason in this thread is unprofessional IMO. Even if your customer is treating you like you are a piece of shit, you try your best to be polite and helpful. Instead, there’s childish mind games being played. It’s something no one else in the industry is doing.
Here’s a parallel story of good customer service: My carvons started bending where the motor and truck meet, I emailed Jerry at carvon, he emailed me back less than 20 minutes later. We talked and decided I would keep riding for a week to see if they get worse. They did, and I again contacted him. With in a few hours, he emailed me back with the offer to send them back and fix them free of charge. 2 weeks later, they are back with new wheels and truck fixed. Always polite and helpful, never condescending or trying to play mind games. It really is that simple. Separate personal emotions and business, and don’t let your personal emotions creep into your business.
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Great post. Hit the nail on the head.
Without customers, a business goes out of business. More on this later…
This is an interesting point. You do as a business have to consider the damages that can be done by turning away swaths of customers. I say that having seen stories similar to this a quite more often then with other distributors on this forum. You don’t want negative stories about your company out there if you have the ability to fix a problem that would lead to said negative story. Would it have taken that much work or effort to simply say, “Hey, sorry it took so long to get back to you. we are quite busy these days. Buy another vesc and put this 1 time code in. It might take longer than the other 3, but we will get it to you asap. Thank you for your order.” Problem solved while treating your customer with respect, regardless of weather they treated you with respect or not.
I can see that interpretation of it, but I do think that phrase is one which is open to interpretation. Obviously, a business needs to whats best for the business, but the customer is always right phrase comes from this idea that a company is what it’s make of it. With out customers, a company can’t grow. I remember Jason saying way back that many of his customers are returning customers, I used to be one of those returning customers. People don’t return if they don’t feel satisfied, so you need satisfied customers in order to get the returning customer that gave enertion the chance to exist and grow.
You can have a terrible product, and great customer service (which no offense intended, I think boosted boards is), or great products and terrible customer service (which I where I think enertion is). You can have a terrible product, but if they can sell the shit out of it, your going to do great. You can have a great product, but without the customer service, your selling products based on the product alone, which many don’t like. In either case, the company can’t exist with out its customers.
The point is, that saying in my interpretation is that a company should build itself by leaving its customers happy and satisfied. Some will suck up more resources then they seem worth, but I don’t think that was the case here at all. It wasn’t a hard request, there was a simple solution (as I stated above), and the response was childish.
It’s hard because yes, there is a line. For example, a homeless guy comes into your store, and creates a ruckus (a common scene here in sf). Do you try to service him or kick him out? It’s a calculated decision, and a tough one. You may lose more customers than gain by servicing him. This is why I believe they almost always get kicked out.
I respect your arguments @magnetvox and thank you for bringing up good points, I can see why you feel how you do, and I don’t think there is a right and a wrong way to interpret that phrase. You have opened my mind to a another view point, and thank you for that 
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I specifically said that I didn’t mind being pushed to the back of the queue if another VESC was added to my order.
All I really wanted to do was get 4 VESCs at the same price instead of 3. Pretty simple.
When the AUD to USD currency conversion dropped 5 cents last month I called the bank and asked for the better price they gave me a few weeks before. They said no… i said its easy… just add some extra cash to the transfer i did a few weeks ago…so simple!.. they refused… so i threatened them. I told them that their service was shit. I spammed their email box whinging to them to please do right by me… I have literally spent over 100k with them… but they still refused, they said their systems can’t do it…
Its so unfair, they should improve their systems so that I get what I want. I am the customer and I am always right.
The guy at the monopoly money store said he’ll give me a much better exchange rate… he was willing to do anything I asked. I’ll never use the bank again!
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Ouch. Its now starting to go round in circles here. iMO. State you defence if need be to protect your company, but just take out the unnecessary extra analogies. @makepeace and yourself will just have to disagree on each others side. Thats the reality. The posts give a reasonable idea of the issue. Now back ro work:)
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Ahhh, the growing pains of small businesses. Been there, done that. It’s a rough road at first, but worthwhile if you can stick it out.
The fact is, he did offer (twice) to rectify the problem (which you created with indecision).
Then, he supplied a very valid point in that the shear chance that you would reorder wouldn’t have been related to his customer service at all. Merely the price of the item.
Now what I got from your reaction was he was absolutely correct. You would have been all in had he not publicly called you out on it. Even though, you just finished doing the same thing to him.
inline with this topic is the fact that everyone wants top quality until they have the opportunity to buy it cheaper, from an unknown source, that hasn’t even made any yet. To take it further, they will quote quality and then buy the cheapest shit they can find to put them together. Mo better?
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First off I’m going to sidestep any of the conflict stuff and get back on the thread. Maybe lighten things up a bit…
My experience with Maytech was pretty good. Good email conversations and stuff. Got a little personal at times. I think I almost got to second base with Eileen@Maytech at one point. heh heh heh. 
I have not had experience ordering from Enertion, but I think it is more than clear that Jason is passionate about ESK8 and that is what I like about him! He’s passionate as hell about this stuff! I really believe that he wants to do right by his customers. He’s gotten beat up a bunch on this forum, but he’s a solid dude at the core.
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Cool, so this will be the first instance of dating through shared love of ska8? Was that picture necessary though? 
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Im fuckin done with this thread.
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Believe it or not, it was an actual picture that was sent with the emails! Sort of like a signature… I should probably take the picture down. LOL But this is seriously a Maytech Rep and they are quite professional to deal with.
so what I have gotten from all this is: onloop is arrogant but reasonable. makepeace doesn’t know how to dig upwards. maytech girls will do anything for a sale.
did I miss anything?
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Nice sum up, i thing you have everything.
Edit: maytech knows that the rc community consists mostly of males
Actually, not.
The problem was created by the inefficiencies of Enertion’s system and them not being able to make a plan around that.
Sure, I made one wrong step in believing that there was a simpler way to settle the matter without cancelling the whole order, refunding and making another order of 4. But by the time I was informed that this was definitely not possible, the price had gone up and Enertion refused to reconcile this fact.
Jason has made one strangely psychologically veiled attempt to rectify the problem (and any actual action following from his offer of “goodwill” has so far not been forthcoming). I tried to move the conversation about that to PM but received no response and instead got some arrogant accusations of how I’m an oxymoron etc.
I don’t want to get into this stupid argument about the consumer going for the lowest price regardless of the customer service, because I think there has been some conflation and projection involved and I don’t think it’s an accurate summary of my position at all and I think that this is just a way of removing the attention from Enertion and pointing fingers and publicly defaming me so that they don’t have to deal with the issue.
At the end of the day, they’re a business, and I’m a reasonably unhappy customer. Pointing out what may or may not be wrong with the customer doesn’t change this fact and is conflating the issue at hand.
My position is this. I ordered 3 VESCs. I changed my mind and wanted an extra one, and informed the supplier of this well in advance of the price increase. They made an offer of a complex way to sort it out, I made a suggestion of a simpler way. They said it couldn’t be done again, and by this time the price had gone up. I then was happy to comply with their offer and redo the order if the price was the same as before. That wasn’t taken to. I then complained about it. That wasn’t taken to. I then complained about it on the forum. That wasn’t taken to, and my order was forcefully cancelled and I was refunded without being consulted about it. Following this, eventually an offer of “goodwill” was made, allowing me to get what I wanted in the first place. This is still in process.
Whether this is really an offer of goodwill or a strange way at making an irrelevant point and making both of us look like fools remains to be seen.
Sure, I want the VESCs at the price that I originally intended to pay for them, but that is not the main point. The main point is that the supplier acknowledges that there is a valid reason for my complaint (or not valid, whatever, but at least acknowledges my complaint) and is willing to make an offer/plan to fix this. I am not going to hold a grudge if a supplier wants the opportunity to change my impression. This is not about money.
If the supplier had not made the offer I would have very easily gone to someone else and not shopped there any more until I was given a reason to otherwise (ie that they were willing to make amends on a relationship level). It’s got nothing to do with who is the cheaper supplier in my view.
I am perfectly willing to make a mature, amicable plan to sort this out with Enertion, and on the face of it they seem to be too. So far the way that the gesture of “goodwill” is panning out isn’t looking very promising though. Maturity, goodwill and childish, arrogant name-calling are not often mutually relevant concepts.
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This isn’t a fair comparison at all.
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