Certified FOCBOX Suppliers | Get Focbox Unity

A contrast of customer experiences: Maytech vs Enertion


#1

I recently had a terrible customer service experience with Enertion and a great one with Maytech.

On the Enertion front, I won’t make any assertions as to who was wrong or right (because that doesn’t exist, there is only good and bad, and that’s a matter of perception), but in comparison to the customer service I have been exposed to in my work in the field of engineering and additionally in most other spheres of life (maybe good customer service is just a South African thing?), I’ve been left very disappointed.

A couple of weeks back (8th May), I pre-ordered 3 VESCs from Enertion - fully paid up front, when there was still much uncertainty as to if and when they would actually materialize. They were fully transparent about that, saying that they actually had no idea when they would be to ship orders out, and I took my risks there and accepted it for what it was. I was going to order 4, but my partner had cash flow difficulties and at that stage couldn’t pay for the 4th. With knowledge of an impending price boom, we decided to cut our losses and order 3 for the bulk pricing and add a 4th when the funds were available, hopefully before the price increase and to maintain the price break. Bearing this in mind, I tried to ask for an estimate as to when the order would be available for shipping so that we could plan accordingly to ship the 4 together, and I was met with “it depends on when you ordered” (which kind of says absolutely nothing).

Funds became available and I immediately asked if I could add another to my order (this was quite some time before the first price increase). After much back and forth, the long and the short of it is that they said they couldn’t add items to orders because of their “system”. I urged them to make another plan ie just let me pay for another one via PayPal or whatever and just ship the 4 together. They got back to me after they increased the price to US$125 (they are pretty slow at replying and I think I’ve only got one reply within 24hrs, as they strive to do) saying they weren’t willing to make another plan to maintain the bulk pricing. I then asked if I could order another at the old price and they said no, and when I complained about the service I was met with a very angry passive aggressive message from Jason (perhaps fueled by that single malt he seems to love talking about in his videos?) accusing me of threatening his staff and etc, when I did nothing of the sort, other than saying I was going to talk about this.

The price is now US$130, almost 50% more than when I made the request to order another. My friend could afford another VESC, all things being equal in a perfect world, but because of Enertions’s lack of will to try and make a plan, now he can’t. That’s his problem, I guess.

So who’s right and who’s wrong in this? No one is. It’s just bad service. Not making any effort to trying to process a very simple request of adding another item to your order (or allowing you to create another completely separate order, whatever) at the same cost (at the time of the request), however complicated you find your system, is just bad service. Or at least it’s not very good. I don’t care about how your system works. You advertise a bulk price and I want to pre-order 3 and then I want to pre-order another long before the items are even available to be shipped and now it’s a huge problem? The supplier should make a plan. I didn’t even mind being pushed to the back of the queue.

My friend now sits with 1 VESC, and he’s looking elsewhere for the next one. Ollinboardco is looking like his option of choice, but Maytech may very well be an option, as it seems they will have the cheapest consistent offering when they become available (at around US$105).

I will add that I will not purchase anything again from Enertion, as a supplier who is not willing to make a simple plan for a customer does not deserve my business, and doesn’t seem to want it either. They’re not doing anyone any favours by selling stuff.

The contrasting experience came from amazing customer service from Maytech. Due to the same problem with not being able to afford a second VESC at the time, my friend also opted for only one motor, so we ordered 3 x 6355 230Kv motors. They shipped these out to my Aramex box in Shanghai a couple of days after we ordered (they were made to order, and super quickly I might add).

When the cash became available to order the 4th motor, this coincided with us finding out that Aramex refused to ship our motors down to South Africa as they are unacceptable items (probably the magnets). We told Maytech about our problem and it turns out that they had heard about this from Aramex and had already made a plan to collect the motors for us! Agnes at Maytech emailed us with her ID and asked us to authorise her to collect our motors. We emailed her asking to add the 4th motor and to quote for shipping, and then we put the order through. No problem.

Agnes emailed me a day later saying she messed up the shipping quote, and said that we needed to pay the outstanding amount.

I went through the quote and thought she had made a mistake (the weight on their website is for the motor only, not the additional accessories). She replied that she hadn’t, but that Maytech would absorb the extra shipping cost. Absolutely amazing. And from a Chinese supplier even? My mind has been blown. Not only did they have no problem adding an item to my order, they without prompt made arrangements to fix our shipping problem (which was my fault), and gave us a discount on shipping.

So, yeah. I think the conclusion to this is that Enertion doesn’t seem to want your business all that much. At least not enough to do the very least to help a customer out. I guess they could try to refute that here? Perhaps they’re growing too quickly? I just hope they don’t forget their roots and lose their business. Although I often find myself thankful for the some of the resources they’ve provided over the years (which bear in mind are all completely in the interests of their business), they’ve lost my business.

Maytech on the other hand really does seem to want your business, and are willing to go more than out of their way to help you, as far as my experience goes. I’ll be buying from them a lot more in future.

Enertion, not so much.


#2

I’m not entirely surprised. On the surface Enertion seems like a very humble and community centric company, and I still believe that they are, or at least try to be. The problem is they are severely understaffed and under prepared for the growth they’ve been experiencing over the last couple months. I’ve had similar gripes about their customer service lately as well.

My most recent experience with them was that I ordered a raptor 4/20 but decided a couple weeks later that I wanted to make a DIY build since that’s what Jason and the esk8 community encourage. I decided to cancel my Raptor and instead get 2 VESCs instead and wanted to know if I could use my spot in line from the original Raptor order for the VESCs I would’ve gotten from it. I talked to Enertion support about this (which took a long time due to their slow response times) and they said it would be doable. I put in a new order for 2 VESCs and about a week goes by with no confirmation of the refund for the Raptor or if my place in line was preserved. I emailed Enertion again and they said it would not be possible to keep my place in line for the VESCs. So now instead of expecting it within the next week, I’m now waiting until mid July to get the VESCs, though realistically, probably later. To make matters worse, when Enertion refunded me I lost $120 due to currency fluxuation, though I can hardly fault Enertion for that.

I gave up and ordered 2 VESCs from Ollinboards but I still have a Space Cell Pro 4 on order from Enertion, who knows when I’ll ever see that…


#3

I don’t understand what you are saying. Was it really ever down to 90AUD in a bulk order or do you just mix up AUD and USD?
Also their behavior is totally understandable - this is a small company that operates out of a garage versus a probably pretty big chinese corporation. Just don’t have the same kind of expectations as when you order from amazon and you will be fine. I for one just calmly wait for my VESCs - they will come when they are ready.


#4

Yes, whew. My mistake. The AUD/USD setting on their website confuses things. Humble apologies.

I guess that makes it a bit better. Maybe my friend will be able to buy another from them now. I’m not having anything to do with it though.

I don’t know how big of a ‘corporation’ Maytech is. That’s a big assumption you’re making there. If they don’t have stock of motors to ship out and have to make to order, I doubt they’re that big. They’re a hobby company, as is Enertion. I think it’s quite a fair comparison.

Regardless though. I’m not expecting anything. I just said that I had a bad experience with Enertion and felt that people should know about it.

I’m waiting pretty calmly for my 2 VESCs too and my friend for his 1 VESC, despite Jason threatening cancelling my order in his last message. Would just be nice if there were 4 coming. Wouldn’t actually mind if he cancelled my order now either, as the exchange rate has taken a bit of a turn.


#5

According to linkedin they have between 200 to 500 employees - tell me again how that is a fair comparison to a garage company?

According to this they have 300 employees, estimated revenue between 2 to 5Mio USD and a factory with 7800m^2.


#6

Interesting. As I said I don’t know. Excuse me for making the assumption that you were making an assumption :blush:.

Fair point though, although it’s besides the point as far as I’m concerned. Bad service is bad service. I would actually have expected worse customer service from a ‘corporation’. Which is usually the case. Especially from Chinese ones, apparently, which everyone seems to love hating on.

I think you’re right though, they’re growing too fast and don’t seem to be able to deal with it while keeping their shit together in some regards.


#7

I should keep my mouth shut so I don’t get banned from this forum, so I’ll keep this short, but Agnes from Maytech has been great with me. A bit of a language barrier at times, but I’m ordering steez remotes from them for about half the price of enertion. I’ll be curious as to their quality, but for something like a controller, I don’t imagine problems as there’s no unforeseen possible stresses on the components like the vesc. I’ll be curious to see how their vescs are, but I don’t think they will use the same quality of components as chaka, and thus will stick with chaka unless they can be proven to be just as reliable.


#8

Agreed. I think @chaka is the way to go for VESCs at the moment. I’m going to try Maytech’s when they’re available though. I have a pilot project in the works and I can’t afford to pay artisanal prices for VESCs. I’m pretty sure Maytech will get their VESCs up to scratch pretty soon though. They have actual engineers working on that sheat. I don’t know if the same can be said for the other manufacturers at the moment? I’d be more inclined to trust an engineered product at face value. We all know how Enertion and DIYElectricSkateboards have struggled to get it right this far.


#9

I’m more interested in the quality of components.

The problems I’ve had with both of my enertion VESCs (1 which came broken, the other broke in day 2 and of course no help or replacement, and chakas in the same setup have been great in 2 months since then) I believe are related to poor quality of components. Chaka spends a lot on components, and has stated that his old price (around $110 usd I believe) was basically the cost of components. He has said him self that he’s over engineered the components to be able to take more abuse then they should ever take. This is what needs to be done with the vesc, as these are going into 1000’s of different configurations, many of which are likely poorly engineered, which will lead to more stress on the vesc then it was originally expected to take. If you leave little room for errors, they will break frequently. Chaka rarely has people break his vescs, and one of the main differences I’ve seen is his choice to use components that can take more abuse then the vesc was originally specked for.


#10

Completely agree. This is an engineering thing though. Components are components. They have data sheets specifying their performance and if they don’t perform according to those specs, the manufacturers can be held to account. With an open source project like the VESC, it’s up to manufacturers to spec components and manufacturing processes that will work, and then test them and validate the product before they sell them. I think that @chaka has done a great job of this considering his means. I think the other manufacturers (Enertion and DIY) have suffered here for the lack of engineering knowledge into how things actually work. Yes, the VESC design works very well on paper and if you hand solder them using good components and adequate skill, but in the real world of product design and manufacture this is a completely different task, and is best left up to the big boys (as Enertion seems to have found out). With Maytech’s extensive product offering, most of which they seem to make themselves, and engineers on board, I think I’ll trust their VESCs when they’re ready to sell them.

As a side note, in engineering there is something called a safety factor. When designing something, you look at your worst case loading and you apply a safety factor to that and design based on the values that come out of that. The safety factor is based on the extremity and probability of the failure. It’s a basic risk analysis. Ie, if you’re designing a bridge that can hold 10000 people, and your probability of failure of a material used is 5%, you have a low probability of failure but a huge extremity, say 1000%. Your safety factor is then 1000/100 * 95/100 = 9.5. So you design the bridge to be 9.5 times stronger than it actually needs to be to account for the risk.


#11

The safety factor on enertions VESCs so far seem to be 1 IMO. Time and time again I have seen posts on this forum where enertions have failed for no real reason, then chakas in the same situation work flawlessly. Then what Jason told me when they broke was that it’s my fault for running them in a configuration that hadn’t been tested before (which wasn’t really true, since several others where already using carvons with the vescs and space cell before me).

Rule number 1 of customer service: the customer is always right, even when they are wrong.

I fought with Jason forever about my 9mm belts breaking on a single motor drive system, and he always insisted he never had an issue. He said it was too high acceleration, too high deceleration, everything in the book, except that 9mm belts on mono drive systems are just too small. If you haven’t noticed, he uses 12mm belts now on mono drive kits. It took 8 months before he finally agreed a month ago to send me a 12mm belt kit for free. He did keep his word to it, so bravo to Jason for that. But why is it that you always seem to have to fight to get customer service (if you do get it), when that’s what he’s selling his products on. Heck, I emailed enertion about my receiver breaking for the steez remote, and it took 6 days to get back to me. I already had plans with maytech to buy them before they could even get back to me with an answer, lol. And that’s the great customer service enertion prides itself on?


#12

Yeah, exactly. I think the main problem I have with this whole experience is that they seem to waste no time telling everyone how great they are and how great their customer service is (and criticizing other business in the process, as per some of Enertion/Jason’s video’s and posts), but in reality when all of the stories come out it’s an actual load of BS.

When you have to ask/beg someone to make a really simple plan for your based on a sales performance that they are providing that isn’t adequate, you’re really at a loss. They are making money from your business at the end of the day. And if they aren’t giving you good business, on your side, what’s the point in pandering?

I’ll see how these new Enertion VESCs perform (if and when I receive them, my order might be cancelled due to this topic, will have to see). Hopefully their supplier has used a safety factor of more than 1. :laughing:. Maybe I’ll experience a turnaround and order from them again, but it isn’t looking likely.


#13

9 posts were split to a new topic: VESC DRV8302 Failures and Repair Options


#22

A post was merged into an existing topic: VESC DRV8302 Failures and Repair Options


#23

Hey guys, as a member of this forum with no branding and providing a service.

I offer BLDC tool for Windows and OS X to make it easy for end users to program and use your vesc.
(Chaka doesn’t support this and suggested to use Linux.)

But I am answering over 20 customer emails a day providing assistance for installation and how to program vesc and no finacual benifits to my self or maybe a $20 donation here or there, but the service time out weighs the time I spend on the product.

What you have to understand is that Jason has a lot of paid products he is selling so his time spent on service is huge I would say over 100 emails a day and up until last couple of week it was just him and a young guy who helped him in the USA answer emails.
Plus packing orders, assembling raptors, doing stock control making sure vesc are being made, making videos and editing and replying to emails.
Plus he is a stay at home dad and only works 3 days a week.

Then for most of you there is a 12 hour time difference.

I’m not taking sides but most of you already know this as you watch his videos and have read posts when he has said all of this. So don’t make the order or wait for things to improve, guess what I’m trying to make an app and I don’t have any working vesc ATM coz I’m also waiting and I don’t have the time to solder some up my self.

He has alot of vesc waiting shipment and the fight on price isn’t worth the time.

I brought an iMac a while ago and it went up in price 40c to the $1 in 1 week because of exchange rates well I was pissed and wish a made that order a week earlier but I wasn’t emailing Tim Cook giving him shit about it.

I was the first person to organise a bulk vesc order just over 1 year ago. I ordered 50 vesc and Jason Brough 25 of them off of me and resold them.
The factory screwed us and used wrong componants and we got blasted for this on endless sphere.
Jason has never made that mistake since and every vesc order since componants have come from mouser according to the BOM so it’s not about components. he could have had vesc out early but he refused to use different mosfets with a little higher resistance because of the back lash he got with the very first order.
He has used a few factories since and he doesn’t have the skill or equipment to be soldering 100vesc or 500vesc in a month so he uses a factory and that has been a learning curve but he is trying to improve.

Moral of the story, buy from enertion or don’t buy from enertion.


#24

Here are some simple facts that might make it easier to understand how we operate.

  • Big Commerce (our e-commerce platform doesn’t allow orders to be modified easily)
  • All website sales need to be recorded into our accounting system, it is linked to our big commerce platform, it doesn’t automatically update.
  • We don’t send out PayPal money requests, because this transaction isn’t accounted for in our accounting systems, It would need to be manually entered and update across three different platforms and still wouldn’t meet our accounting requirements.

below is a summary of our communications with you.

1. You asked us for a delivery date of the vesc, we didn’t give you that information because we didn’t know the answer. I suppose we could have lied to you and made up an answer. However honesty is our policy so we told you the truth, we don’t know.

Your response:

“Hmmm. So what you’re saying is that you have absolutely no idea of the regularity of your stock arriving”

Yes, that is why we said we don’t know



2. You asked to modify your order to add items, we said its not possible and that you need to order the item separately or alternatively we could cancel the first order & you could place another order with the correct quantity.

Your response:

Unfortunately I’m simply not going to accept this level of customer service.

Both your’s and the owner’s slow response time to my messages, combined with your inability and lack or will to make a very simple plan to help as customer are now going to cost me a lot more money.

My request was very very simple. Nothing outlandish. I ordered 3 VESCs (preordered even!!!), paid upfront, with absolutely no accurate idea of when they are to arrive. A couple of days later I said I’d like to add one another to my bulk order. What excuse could you possibly have not to be able to do this?! You use PayPal. I use PayPal. You didn’t even have the VESCs yet at that stage. Now you want me to pay 40% more?

This is incredibly poor customer service and for an organisation that’s so marketing conscious about having good customer service and for acting like you’re doing everyone a favour. This is pretty disappointing.

This isn’t a threat or anything. But if we can’t sort this out rightfully, people are definitely going to hear about it. Because no body should have to stand bullshit customer service.

We gave you very clear options, you ignored them and instead started threatening & swearing at my staff.

The problem here is:
1. You ordered incorrectly.
2. You ignored our instructions.


#26

Look above your post. Lol.


#27

Here’s an interesting bit from another thread posted earlier:

lol


#29

After what? Your post? EDIT: Is there supposed to be an image on your post?


#30

This part.