LOL And I would be willing to bet that what you are writing that comment on was mostly “made in China”, the coffee machine for your morning coffee, etc. etc. etc. probably all comes from China - but wait “China is shit”. What a stupid comment. There is good and bad in everything but generalising like that is ridiculous.
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So please tell me where you get your computer parts, your mobile phone and your TV from.
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I am not talking about APPLE products made in CHINA nor my coffee machine for that instance. We are talking here about eboard electronics.
You said advanced electronics. Also all the other escs we use are basically made in china. Your gt2b or any other remote will also be made in china.
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Sure. I am waiting for your Chinese Vesc review.
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About 80% of all electronics we use are produced in china. And we use those products so they work. There are however lots of reasons why a product could work or fail. A few common reasons why “Chinese” products fail are quality control, choosing different components than specified and worst of all fake/cloned components (BIG issue because some (often american) components are not allowed to be sold / sourced in china and therefore; fake components are a temping option).
I designed 3 products that are produced in china ( 1k units on one of the products and 2x50 for the others ). The 1k production went perfect, I think mainly because production was strictly guided from the Netherlands ( most components where sourced here and send to China ) and cost was no issue.
For the two other products we faced the issue that the power supply on the board failed above >10Volts (but functioned <10V perfectly), it just went up in smoke or didn’t work at all. I did build a few prototypes and verified that with the specified components the supply should accept a input voltage up to 30V. The issue ended up to be fake texas instruments power supply chips. With this production lower component cost meant more profit for the supplier.
The main point I learned (from fellow engineers as well) -> If the people sourcing the components make money by saving cost you most likely end up with a less to non functional product. And if company “image/reputation” has no value (the case for consumers as costumers) the result is even more likely to be BAD. :P.
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I don’t think Maytech is all too terrible from the interaction I’ve had with them thus far. I’ve ordered 4 motors from them, so we’ll see what they’re like, but so far they have been very professional and even sent me engineering drawings of the motors on request.
We’ll see about the quality of their products, but from what I know a couple of people are using Maytech motors and I haven’t seen any bad press. They have an engineer setting up the production of their VESCs, so I suspect the quality will be of a reasonable standard. I don’t judge a premature picture of their offering, I’ll judge the product that I buy when it’s officially listed on their website.
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I have made 3 VESC’s manually, the costs for me were 100 euro each (parts cost, no labor), I used premium parts. So for anyone selling under that cost -> they will be out of business soon or they compensate somewhere I think there is no room for compensation.
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@ JTAG I do think your reasoning is sound there. With these components it makes a huge, and I do mean huge, difference whether you buy 10 or 10 000. Maytech will be buying (and may well be group buying) on a whole different scale, direct from manufacturers. Even Enertion who is buying on a much smaller scale can sell (not produce as he is not doing it out of the goodness of his heart) his VESCs cheaper than 100 Euros. Would be implying that he is using inferior components?
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oops, forgot the “not” “I do not think your reasoning is sound there.”
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There is an editing option ;p. And you don’t have to share my reasoning ofcource ( I am no female xD ). I (think) know a little how production of electronics works (my designs are produced about 5k times ) and I expressed my toughts about it.
But please don’t believe or convince others you can buy a decent quallity vesc below 100€.
Yes, it will probably be cheaper than 100€ but, the counterfeit parts will still be a huge problem. That how the primarily reduce their cost.
So you believe that both DIY Electric and Enertion both sell inferior VESC’s? They both sell VESCs below 100 Euros - and that is with their profit margin included. I am not trying to convince anyone to buy anything, just saying I believe your calculations are based on low quantities. In my opinion it is quite possible, looking at the components, to get decent quality at a more reasonable price if a bigger player comes into the equation.
The VESC is spec’d with really expensive components. I think you assume too much when considering the price drop on bulk purchasing. The capacitors and major components are still very expensive when purchased in bulk.
They will obviously be using substandard caps as any other VESC does in this price range so you will likely see a lot of failures when used in the higher voltage systems.
Having said that, I think this is a perfect time for a large company to start producing the VESC and getting these to the masses. V5 will be out soon and anyone actively involved in the development will be moving on.
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They either use low cost component OR they make little to none money OR a combination of both ( likely). They either hurt themselves directly (by selling at cost) or hurt themselves in the long run (warranty claims -> bad image).
I don’t even take the VESC’s into account that fail by user error. There will be even more failures, they might claim warranty as well.
Producing in large quantities is also less desirable since about every year there is a significant HW design update rendering the sourced expensive components useless.
Let this be an eye opener: you need at least a margin factor of 1.6 to stay in relaxed business / healthy (here in the NL at least, but I think in generall).
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So chaka, as you are selling at these prices (Maytech prices I have seen marked at $70-150 - so take average of over $100), you are saying you use substandard components?
Yes, and I say that from my experience and the experience of others on this forum. I bought 2 from enertion, one came broken, other broke the second day during normal use. Many others have similar stories. I’m sure many haven’t had an issue, but many on here also have complained of a similar experience. My personal opinion is they are cheap Chinese crap. This is why some on here refuse to repair them also, as you fix one thing and another problem pops up. Now that you guys talk about knock off components, I wouldn’t be surprised if they did have knockoff components, because there’s no reason they should break like they did for me (and others). Same settings with chaka’s vescs, been running solid for months so far. That’s the difference between cheap Chinese factory made and American hand made. I hope the next batch from enertion goes better, as they are US made, but like JTAG said, it’s expensive to build a vesc with good quality components, so as I look at it now, you get what you pay for. If you choose the cheap route, you rolling the dice. You either get a good one or you get unlucky, and lost $90-100.
Chaka was selling his at $110, but his new price is $150. I do agree that it is possible for Maytech to sell at $100( more like $125 with shipping included). Enertion latest batch of vesc is manufactured in the US, and I believe most if all not of the components are from Mouser. His new batch uses Nichicon caps, which is the same brand as Chaka’s vesc so the quality is more than likely the same.
Come on ! How could you ? That’s racism.
Of course it’s going to be crap but some people here seem to be in total denial mode.
He’s saying vendors who sell them for under $100 are. chaka is sorta setting the standard for a quality vesc right now. Even with maytechs shipping of around $25, even if they use quality components, I will spend the extra $25, and get piece of mind knowing that if it breaks, it will be fixed at little to no extra cost for me.
First of all, I know your being sarcastic, but… The original comment that everything from china is crap is sort of racist. I don’t think that the term “cheap Chinese crap” is racist, because it’s common knowledge and well accepted that there’s a lot of cheap Chinese factories cutting corners and build crappy products. There’s good factories there too. I’m sure many of my computer parts are likely made there, and I’ve had my laptop for almost 6 years now, having used it for hours everyday, getting it way too hot overclocking everyday, and dropping it in the worst ways possible from height without much more than a scratch. The engineering is half the battle IMO. But quality stuff can come from china, so saying all Chinese stuff is crap is racist. That I have not said, because from my experience, it’s not true.