Warhorse | Five Mile Warhorse | 83mm Flywheels | Tacon 160 | Single Drive | 8s4p li-ion | Nunchuk | VESC

jrpwit · July 11, 2016, 9:25am

Been here a while reading everyone’s stuff. I learned a lot so I have decided to makes my own build thread to help others causes this forum has a very nice community will to help others. Been working on my board for a while but I reconsidering my battery. This is the reason my board is taking me so long.

Battery Medic 11 http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/_10328__HobbyKing_8482_Battery_Medic_System_2S_6S.html

28oz fiberglass 25 https://www.amazon.com/3M-Fiberglass-Resin-Repair-Quart/dp/B000BO7CVK 15 ft velcro 20 http://www.amazon.com/VELCRO-Industrial-Strength-Wide-Black/dp/B00006IC2T

fine wire mesh (ventilation for enclosure) thumb screws wood inserts small hinge

Diagram of my build. Sorry its kinda messy.

UPDATE: Not using 12s anymore but am using 9s cause its safer for the vesc but 8s would more ideal cause there is no chance of going above 60k erpm.

As I stated before I am rethinking my battery. I drew a diagram below which I plan to use Samsung 25R cells on so I get 60 amps.

I plan to use this bms which I have heard good things about. http://www.batterysupports.com/44v-48v-504v-12s-60a-12x-36v-lithium-ion-lipolymer-battery-bms-p-270.html ($43) I will use @michaelcpg 's diagram and this helpful vid (seriously a good vid especially for a beginner like me) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnEGYwBa4tk to help me wire my bms. I dont have the money for the batteries right now though (another reason for my slow progress on my board).

Plan to buy my batteries for here. http://liionwholesale.com/collections/batteries/products/samsung-inr18650-25r-battery-genuine-tested-20a-2500mah-flat-top-wholesale-lot?variant=1038201992 Its funny that buying 26 cells is only 2 buxs more than buying 24 cells.

Michaelinvegas · July 11, 2016, 10:52am

Hey finally someone gonna make the warhorse !

jrpwit · July 11, 2016, 5:26pm

Decides to just scratch the idea of lipos cause i will just replace them with li-ion later. In the end I will save money. Instead of 12s3p I will do 12s2p. It will have the same mah as my original lipo plan but I am worried about the low amps that I will have available to my motor going up hills. I know that enertion uses 3p so a total of 60 amps but is 40 amps enough?

DougM · July 11, 2016, 7:37pm

where did you get the Tacon 160?

jrpwit · July 12, 2016, 1:03am

Off hobby partz when I first started

jrpwit · July 12, 2016, 1:25am

And come on is no one going to answer my question? Here a pic of my chain pulley all set up

Here is one of the modified DIY v4 mount You can see the protruding c clip in this pic

DougM · July 12, 2016, 3:35am

Wait, what was your question? is 40A enough? Plenty at 12s (people might disagree). I think Chaka said that 12s is the absolute upper limit of what you want to drive VESC with.

So I would go with 10s3p. I actually am going with 9s3p on the little board and 10s5p on the big board.

Also, nice job on the chain drive - I think you and I are the only people here using chain drive. I’m running Delrin gears and so far they are doing really well, but I don’t have a ton of miles on them yet.

I really like the Tacon 160’s too, they are nice motors. I’ve been waiting patiently for a long time for them to come back in stock.

jrpwit · July 12, 2016, 6:29am

Yeah chain is great! It doesnt break unlike belts and gears wont get worn out (also looks better imo). Drilling holes in my 36 tooth sprocket was such a pain tho. I only own chinese drill bits and I dont even have a drill press. I have a decent drill tho but still it was lots of work cause the sprocket is made of hardened steel (yikes!). I had to use multiple sized masonry bit to slowly enlarge the holes. Certainly was a learning experience! I would make my board 10s cause if would be safer for the vesc but I want speed! This is the reason I went with the tacon 245kv. It has a high kv but also if a large motor like enertion’s r-spec motors so the tacon 245kv will still have a good amount of torque. I believe that Jason has his motors made by they same people who made the tacon motors and they have a similar design. Btw they are not coming back in stock. Sorry but even Jason said so. I must have gotten one of the last ones from hobbypartz. He’s the theoretical calculations of my board (41 mph!!! 32 mph with 80% efficiency): UPDATE: Im not going 12s anymore! Im going 9s but 8s would be safer for the vesc

I think Ill just go with the lipo setup for now cause I already purchased 2 of the lipos. I may as well just buy the rest. I think I build my 12s2p battery later and really regret not plan to make a li-ion battery in the first place cause li-ion is safer, longer last, and I would put a bms on it. The 12s2p li-ion battery would have only cost me 200 buxs to make including the bms and a charger where as the lipos cost me 86 buxs and I have to deal with an annoying balance charger which cost me 40 buxs. I conclusion… go with li-ion instead of lipo.

Namasaki · July 12, 2016, 6:33am

jrpwit · July 12, 2016, 6:36am

If you read my most recent post you well see why I chose 245kv. I even asked a couple questions on that thread when I read it a while back.

sl33py · July 12, 2016, 6:50am

VESC + >200kv motor + 12s = - unless you have a newer version which works, but i don’t think 4.12 fixed and v6.0 isn’t out yet.

I would suggest 10s in that case w/ your Tacon 245kv motor.

Great looking board and looks really well thought out. GL!

Namasaki · July 12, 2016, 6:55am

I did see your recent post about trying to get mega speed with 245kv and 12s. I didn’t realize that you had already read Chaka’s post. I just ordered a couple Vesc’s and I’m a little worried over the fragile DRV chips myself. About the speed thing, I’m currently running dual 6355 230kv motors(some have said they’re only 200kv. I will be testing them soon as my motor analyzer comes) on 12s lipo with 16/36 gears and I’m only getting 28mph tops. 185-190lbs I use to run 145kv hub motors and got 33-35mph tops Had to switch to slower belt drive setup for hill climbing. Anyway, when my Vesc’s come, I’m gonna drop down to 10s

jrpwit · July 12, 2016, 8:02am

Didnt know their was a newer vesc. I recall seeing vender’s new vid on his youtube though where he was using a 500 kv motor I think. I didnt look it much tho. Does the newer vesc go over the 60k erpm limit so now you wont get drv chip errors? Also I was told by @Jinra that you can hit the 60k erpm limit and not damage the vesc. I asked Jinra in another thread (link to thread below) if going above 60k erpm was alright and he said it wouldnt harm the vesc cause it only causes errors. He said that 100k was the hard limit. So I assumed I could not harm my vesc with a 12s 245 kv setup.

chaka · July 12, 2016, 1:50pm

A Tacon will pop a drv chip at 12s the first time you spool it up on the bench, I speak from experience. Even at 10s it will be dicey, it will work but it wont be long before it throws a fault at high ERPM and toasts your drv. My recommendation for the max voltage to use with the Tacon is 8s

Don’t beat yourself up too much about buying lipos and a balance charger. It is invaluable to have some perspective on the differences between the two types of cells and a balance charger is a great tool to have on the bench as a builder.

jrpwit · July 12, 2016, 7:19pm

Thank you very much for the info! You are the real OG on this forum. Anyways I will totally take your advice to go down to 8s but I will be going to 9s cause I already purchased 2 3s lipos. I just will not go full throttle when the cells are a 4.2 volts cause Ill get 64827 erpm (37.82457). I think it would be safe to go full throttle is the cells were at 3.7 cause the erpm wouldnt exceed 60k.

Thank you everyone for the help!

chaka · July 12, 2016, 8:37pm

Yeah you can take it to 9s but treat it like a high performance machine. Meaning, don’t spool the motors up to max rpm on the bench or with the board riderless on the ground. You will want to only max it out under load. When not under load the motor will receive around 4.1v per cell because of the low voltage sag under such a light load from purely the drag of the drivetrain alone. This is assuming you have a full charge with the board fresh off the charger.

You will be breaching 60k ERPM by a relatively low amount so it isn’t as bad as 10s but it does have some small risks. Also, if it is geared to climb hills with a low top speed you will need to be careful not to coast beyond that speed because it can then easily surpass 60k ERPM during regen.

I consider a system like this to be pushing the envelope and would be great for a high speed racing board if it where fitted as a dual diagonal. Really fast with standard gear ratios but temperamental. Luckily V6 looks like it will solve some of these restrictions and allow for more experimentation.

Edit: One of the reasons I am stressing the full throttle risk so much is because the way the VESC works in “current” mode. Even at a 1/4 throttle the motor will spool up to max rpm if unloaded.

jrpwit · July 13, 2016, 12:08am

Thanks for all the info and risks. I didnt even consider the fact that the motor would exceed 60k when unloaded and the fact that go past my top speed down a hill I will be also be exceeding the 60k erpm. My top speed on 9s should 30 mph which is still very fast. I will be sure to get the new vesc when its available so I possibly go the full 12s.

jrpwit · July 13, 2016, 10:49am

If I happen to damage my drv chip could I just buy a knew one? I do have access to surface mount soldering tools and some experience using it to replace parts in phones. Is this a good place to buy the chip? http://www.mouser.com/search/refine.aspx?Ntk=P_MarCom&Ntt=113734323

DeathCookies · July 13, 2016, 11:28am

It is maybe the the best place to buy replacement parts for the VESC. Everyone here on this forum would be recommending this shop in the first place for sure !

jrpwit · July 13, 2016, 12:09pm

Thanks! Didnt know if it was that great of a site! Just to clarify but I would purchase the DRV8302DCAR and not the DRV8302DCA right?