Wrong… Good lord.
Since when did their track record improve?
Last time I saw it, they work great in BLDC, but lack the upgrades to run FOC reliably… Unless their picture is super old, I can see the caps that should be upgraded but are not.
Beyond that, the 4.12 only has 2 shunts, so it can’t measure the 3rd phase, it tries to calculate it, and vedder even said this doesn’t always work out, resulting in drv errors.
1 Like
I personally have 2 boards running TB VESC’s in FOC, a single and a dual. I know many many people that have TB VEC’s running in FOC & Hybrid mode.
I’ve argued this so many times, I’m just lost why people think they are not good. If you sell 1000 widgets and have a 5% failure rate that’s 50 complaints. If you sell 100 widgets with the same 5% failure rate that’s only 5 complaints. The reason there are more ‘visible’ complaints is because he sold so frikkin many.
The TB VESC is not as robust as a FocBox obviously and its more susceptible to user error, but it’s a perfectly serviceable VESC.
4 Likes
I would reccomend you 6374 motors and a 12s battery and a focbox if you can find one
I don’t want to bash something that doesn’t deserve bashing. I wish for scientific purposes, we had some sort of group that did analysis of vesc varieties for consumer protection purposes.
Since all of these sources, from hobbyking, to maytech, to diyelectric, and many more are using the same BOM and same pcb layout, other than assembly (and possible fake parts), there’s really no difference in them. My testing of cheap china vescs has continued to frustrate me, as it did Derek.
Derek was the first person I met who actually experienced the same thing as me, but he had way more money to blow. He tested all of the vescs and all of the hub motors at the time, spending easily 10k+ on parts between almost a dozen boards. He found the same thing as me. The only vesc that stood up was the official vesc 6 and the chaka 4.12 vesc (and that every hub motor either had shitty thane or slipping thane).
I personally have never tried a TB VESC, because all of my enertion VESCs fell apart instantly. When chaka came along, and found the same problems occurring, and then made some changes, and saw these problems go away, he was able to improve the reliability so much that he’s still on the 4.12 platform.
Since then, I’ve had 3x Flipsky 6.6’s fail on me within a week each, and replaced with a vesc 6 in the same enviroment, and 4 months later (of 50 miles a day, 5 days a week for work), still going.
Every cheap china VESC I’ve tried has failed me, and Derek had the same consensus.
If TB vesc’s are using chakas upgrades, I would say its probably ok (baring that assembly is good). If not, I don’t trust them.
But if you want 100% guaranteed reliability, get a chaka VESC or trampa vesc 6. Still the only 2 vesc’s I can say have never failed me, ever.
@mmaner your argument is the same as Jasons. I understand that a few bad ones don’t speak for the crowd. But it’s hard to get a consensus as to what makes them break or even the real failure rate. Not everyone will say, hey this broke. They might think it’s their fault and move on. Some will buy and never use it and resell it. Some will buy and it will sit on a desk for a year or more. Actually going straight into a deck seems to be a less common then buy and sit on a desk for a while (we’ve all been there and done that). So then do you say we can’t rely on half of the people to report their failure and another half of that won’t use them for some time. So now you have 25% left and 5% of those report a failure, so now your really at a 20% failure rate?
This is all speculation, as is the real failure rate. No one really knows because of these factors.
I just want people to understand their’s risks taken when you buy cheaper components. I wish we had a solution, but to me, it’s about quality testing.
The Vesc 6 is tested very well by vedder. I trust he’s solved any issues and made it reliable, and this has been my experience with it. Chaka does a good job testing his vesc design also. Both know what they are doing, and it’s resulted in vesc’s that haven’t failed me.
Nothing against Dexter, but he’s a business man, not a vesc wizard. I don’t think he can test them properly without relying on someone else to do the testing. And it that person is the factory making them, I don’t trust them.
I wish we could have $100 perfect VESC 6’s, which based on the cost of the BOM for the vesc 6 (under $30), should be very easy to do. But planned obsolesce is good for business. Reliability means no need to replace, which means less money consumers will give you (as a business). And if you can convince the public it’s not a design flaw, but just a freak accdent, they will keep buying from you. See how brilliant the game is? I fell into this trap with enertion, and I’m still bitter about it. I am 100% convinced that if caps aren’t upgraded, and your running 12s foc, it’s likely a ticking time bomb that will go off sooner rather than later.
If money is limited, spend it on bullet proof parts instead of semi relibable parts. Maybe they work out and save you some money, maybe they don’t and now your in square one. This happened to me and many many other long term members here (the false economy). I should have spent less than $2k to build my first quad board… $3.5k later due to shitty electronics failing.
3 Likes
The problem with this is that its full of assumptions with no verification, so from the “Value of a Dataset” point of view its just worthless. You can’t make a bunch of assumptions, call them true for the sake of an argument and expect it to have any value or validity.
What I can say from my personal experience with my own boards is this…
- TB VESC’s are great for cruisers and limited FOC, like hybrid mode
- FocBox’s are good for whatever
- Vesc 6 is overpriced as it actually does NOT handle high amps as well as a FocBox
My personal experience does NOT support this.
I don’t own any Chaka VESC’s but that will be changing soon. I would support pretty much anything Chaka builds.
Assumptions again. That’s ok for evaluating what your going to buy, but when you start using those assumptions as facts and advise other people, its just dishonest and it doesn’t do anyone any favors…customers or @torqueboards.
That’s just insinuation, also not valuable.
Honestly, I feel like your just trying to start something as in your own words…
I mean I feel like you should have at least used a product before you say
I don’t have anything against you, but from all of the topics/posts we have taken part in together I can see we are never going to see eye to eye on business practices.
5 Likes
@evoheyax if you really want reliability, use 10S. This matters a lot more than the rest of that. Whenever you’re pushing parts beyond what they’re designed for, failures are part of the game. The DRV83xx parts are not suitable for 12S operation with inductive loads if you want something reliable. It’s that simple.
3 Likes
All I’m trying to do is speculate from my corner, from my experience, possibly what could be happening.\
The only real solution is an unbiased testing system. And I’m ready to undertake that. I’ll be posting something soon about this after I start some organization of this project. But it needs to be done.
@b264 Yet I have put 1000’s of miles on my chaka 4.12’s at 12s with high amp loads…
Again, I’ll be posting something soon about a project I’m nick naming “The VESC Test” (pending frank doesn’t sue me, haha). It’s time we settle this issue once and for all, so that science can move forward, and the consumers know what they are buying…
Yeah… “one person did something and it didn’t break” has nothing to do with what I said; thanks.
A couple people have jumped off bridges and not died. You think that’s safe? People did it and they were fine!
1 Like
For your test to be valid you need lots of metrics in lots of environments with lots of different loads and it has to be independently verifiable.
2 Likes
Hey man, I’m not trying to argue with you. Seriously. You said it’s not up to par, but I have 8 of his vesc’s running 12s and never had an issue, and everything else has always blown up, except the offical vesc 6 also. Chaka also runs 12s and many who use his vesc have and he has had a very low fail rate compared to other vendors.
All I can do is correlate data. This is how we do data analysis and build AI models. But if the correlations are bad, you end up with a shitty model and a shitty result. Are my correlations good? IDK… More testing is needed to understand what is at play here.
People did it and they were fine!
This is the plan. It’s not an easy task and I will be seeking out people who have the skill sets needed who are willing to volunteer time to solve this. It’s going to take a community effort. But it needs to be done, because hundreds of thousands of people will be buying these over the coming years. If we can have even a small impact (whether is help people not waste their money or improve the end product), we would be successful.
In the mean time poor old troy is getting more and more confused. Really does get on my nerves when comments are bandied around with no actual real experience. Unless you use the things daily then you do not have an opinion. Period. @mmaner does have this actual experience as do I regarding tb vesc, I run 2 on 10s which have never let me down. Had them running 12s too for a few months. I have 2 HK vesc running 10s with no issues so far as for focboxes well I have 6 of those things and again no issues. Does this make me special? No but it does give me the right to comment on whether or not I think they are good units. This thread is not the place to get into a big discussion on which mode is better or whether the bloody capacitors need upgrading. its about helping the guy to make informed decisions based on experience. Not hearsay. Experience. So unless you are using the actual parts @Customesk8 is thinking about using then please keep the confusing statements to yourself. This game is hard enough without all the bluster and pomp.
5 Likes
Just learn how to use a VESC. I’ve been running a 160mm pneumatic setup on 12S on TB VESCs riding in thick grass with no issues lately… I have a customer putting 15-30 miles/day on our ESCs and he’s killing - zero issues on 12S4P with FOC.
If your new… and don’t do your homework… yeah, you might break it.
@evoheyax you haven’t even tried it LMFAO 
5 Likes
That’s why I can’t say shit about it. But What I said is the picture you have doesn’t show any upgrades, and I said without those upgrades, I personally wouldn’t trust it, that’s all.
I was new when I bought enertions 2nd and 3rd batch vesc’s, but I knew what I was doing. It wasn’t me. Then I bought chakas upgraded vescs, and never had a problem again, until I tried a cheap china 4.12 which broke again.
Are you using chaka’s upgrades? If so, you could update the picture to reflect it!
Didn’t stop you though did it?
Most of our customers don’t post on forums (a lot do, but not all). They are beginners as you can see from this post. Adding more technical details doesn’t help as far as making it less confusing for people.
Our products aren’t the cheapest as far as BOM costs go. Majority of our parts are actual originals. We replace our VESCs a lot of times even if it is a user error. Going cheap would hurt us negatively in the long-run.
8 Likes
I don’t think his vescs need the Chaka upgrades, I have them running at 12s perfectly fine for the last 6 months or so.
Have you ever thought maybe, just maybe you are the reason they always die, and that you need to use very high quality ones for them to survive. Whereas the normal rider is using them perfectly fine, I don’t see many complaints about burnt 4.12 vescs anymore, just the odd noob who tried to run two motors with one vesc or didn’t run detection.
The other thing I noticed is that the vescs you claim to have worked all have large heat sinks, is it possible you have been overheating all other vescs and that’s why they die. I would take all heatsinks off the Chaka/ trampa vesc and then test them the same way you do… now that is a real comparison.
Always compare apples with apples, not oranges
2 Likes
Man the fan boys coming in swinging lol.
I was never trying to say tb vescs are bad and avoid them. Far from that. It seems like that’s what you think I’m saying for some reason. If they work great, was trying to see where they are at now compared to before. I never meant to swing at tb. A lot of emotions here and people ready to attack. Like you want to strike fear in anyone saying anything cause theirs a mob ready to attack.