baseplates were massive and heavy to handle loads and it still needed special deck to resit to the bending stress.
I always wondered why they where built like that. I have some pantera trucks like that, basically streetcarver copies, I was hoping to try putting them on a regular deck.
The truck+deck design has been imposed by skateboard history but it really limits a lot potential board performances.
Maybe true, but at the same time the system allows for a lot of mixing and matching of components.
Agree for the convenience of mixing of truck/deck but not at the cost of performances.
The pleasure of deck/truck/bushing/wheel design is also very familiar and affective to me but when it’s really old fashioned, we have to face reality …
A new board design can really bring much better performances, specially for Eboards!
Okay, but performance is kind of subjective depending on the person.
For the sake of argument, my personal ideal is an agile lightweight frame that is relatively compact and and can take corners very tightly at low to medium speed. Thus I’ll want a reasonably short board, say 36-38 inches, and air filled tires. Basically, good for off-road, not bad for on road.
On the other hand, someone who is all about speed and downhill racing (for example) will likely want a longer deck for stability at higher speeds and smaller wheels.
There’s also the fact that if you’re selling a complete board price goes up, size and shipping go up too, unless maybe you sell it as a kit.
Question: does this mean that you’re developing a custom deck to go with the trucks?
I’ve seen that you used to have a few different size versions of this, will that be the case now? Because one size will likely not fit all…
There are few technical performances of a board design that can be measured and compared (assuming same length/size of wheels)…
As you said, maniability (minimum turning radius) is very important for urban use. It can be easily measured and compared.
Stability at speed, speed wobble, easiness of control, … is a bit more technical but is now quite documented.
Grip, adherence, (ability to turn without sliding) is also quite documented by automobile industry …Rigid steering axle like skateboards are not know for high performance
At the end, you can summarize the performance of a design under an “operating range” (what it can do) see below
So I’m starting to get quotes for CNCing a pair of baseplates and four swing arms, and the lowest so far is $1324 (yes, dollars)!
I will see about just doing the baseplates and using the arms from the monster board I took apart, but it’s still prohibitively expensive.
Since I would like to make one of these regardless @Flexboardz what would it cost for you to do a small run of these? What would the minimum amount be?
Agree with the high range of price for a cnc board…(swing arms make it more costly than a skate truck)
In order to make boards at a reasonable/competitive price, it needs to make molds for aluminium casting and work with foundry who request minimum quantity…
Same for wheels and accessories who request minimum quantity to have wholesales price.
In the 2000’s when I made Flexboardz, minimum quantity requested by factories was around 500 boards (300 if you really made them cry)…and the factories were only available in Asia (I am in France) which added long delays( 6 months) and sometimes quality problems.
Now, things have improved a bit (there are smaller factories available in Europe) and minimum quantity have lowered so I think that the minimum quantity to produce an original design of board is around 100 units…
I hope that I answered your question…but it really depends upon your design
Another way is to use/modify existing cheap parts… I tried to use bicycle crank at the beginning (see below )
Last, I never experienced it myself, but “theoretically”, home made aluminium sand casting can be a really cheap way to make your parts
That looks pretty good! How well did it work?
I’ve never done sandcasting or any foundry work, I’d probably want to start with something simpler than this though.
I understand the problem of minimum quantity, I’ve been getting told the same thing- the fewer the parts, the more expensive each one is, especially for Cnc. I’m looking into adapting my design for a three axis mill, rather than five.
This is why I asked earlier why you don’t make it as a kit? That way you only need to supply the specialized parts, and let buyers choose their own wheels, tires (deck?) etc.
It worked very well commercially but was a nightmare regarding production (I was constantly out of stock, waiting for next production).
In my case, wheels are the only thing that is standard…And, in fact, selling the wheels is a way to make additional margins as we haven’t accounted the cost of the human being that runs the whole circus…
This is probably not the answer most people are hoping for, but the truth of the matter is that mountainboards are ass for turning due to their inherent design flaws.
Problem 1.Their use of super wide trucks means you’re unable to put your weight over the wheels when you lean the board into a turn. This forces you to throw your weight around in order to get them to turn.
This is why narrower trucks are taking over the DH scene. Narrower trucks means wheels further under your feet. Wheels further under your feet = more weight over the wheel. More weight over the wheel = more turning responsiveness.
Problem 2. These Mountainboard decks are “dropped”… meaning you have minimal leverage over the pivot point of your trucks.
That’s why top-mount is preferred over drop-through/drop decks for carvy longboard setups. That increased height over the pivot point of the trucks allows for more leverage which in turn allows for more responsive easier turning
We need a new deck that doesn’t have a drop. We also need a deck that can accommodate narrower trucks equipped with AT tires.
Do the center point, where “arms” are connected, also ‘swivel’ / move around or not?
I assume it would be nice to mess around with parts and try to create something similar. Would take some time of course but if the end design works that would be really nice.
Also - about the wheels - are these pneumatics taken from rollerblades or u got them elsewhere?
Yes, the centerpart (crosspiece) rotate to make the steering.
And, yes, I have had few years to experiment many designs/applications and prepare the evolutions.
Wheels are 7" HP wheels from a specific supplier (not rollerblade)
I think what would work best would be to make a couple comparison videos between swing arm “trucks” and regular skate or spring trucks.
What would be interesting to see would be the turning radius for these setups also. Though agility and stability would probably be biggest factors as turning radius can vary a lot based on setup, wheels etc.
Havent really checked your youtube channel, maybe uve got something like that already… though I think there needs to be some ‘promo’ materials to better convince and more importantly introduce people to this steering mechanism and whole concept.
Of course there have been a few examples out in the world already but maybe, somehow this could gain enough momentum to be run as a test with enough willing “participants” closely enough to get and try or this steering design themselves.
For now only disadvantage I see is extra lenght for board and probably extra weight due to more material used
Probably still lighter and cheaper than a bajaboard though😉
I’m down to put my prototype up against flexboard’s. Although, since his is already a proven design I’d happily pay for a set.
I had to turn off the flexboardz.com website due to virus/spam… and it had such technical explanations/video demonstration about wobble/grip, etc…(I should consider cleaning it /turning it online)
You can still see the videos on the Youtube channel (it’s from the 2000’s so quality is not perfect).
On the 2nd generation, I moved the crosspiece under the deck so the wheelbase is not longer than regular mtb anymore (even a bit shorter as wheels don’t move like on mtb with risk of touching feet).
Extra weight of additional parts (arms) is compensated by ligther deck due to structural effect…2nd generation is 5.5 kg, in line with competition.
Agree 100%, mountainboards have design limitations due to their extended wheelbase and the speed/terrain they target…skatetruck has been invented to dance waltz on flat woodenfloor…
My last advice : don’t be cheap on swing arms hinge quality…It’s very frustrating to have a working prototype but “damned slow” due to lack of parallelism of front wheels …
)
no split width