Raptor 2 Spare battery 10s4p how to charge? with and without bms?

That’s why the parallel groups matter. at 4P. There is no sag to be mentioned (a bit at 3P, again my experience)

@wafflejock It’s hard to compare those statistics, that’s also why I don’t mention them and like I said. Personal prefs. If you Like big power. Lipo is prolly the way to go. And I think they’re more dangerous charging than being abused. (as a sidenote). But even on my powerdrills, I’m enjoying lions more than older tech. Lifespan being the main part

I don’t really get where the extra lifespan comes from I’d imagine the lifespan is really a product of the internal resistance and how much the battery is cooking itself (how stressed it is relative to that internal resistance).

Regarding overcharging and all I guess I just got accustomed to taking care and monitoring things with charging my quad batteries but seems safer than having your potential fire attached to an extra fuel source if it does go (plus worst case scenario I lose one 5S instead of a 10S).

Fact is, after 500 charges, the lipo is done. lion survives 1000. Why is there no lipo to be found in your cellphone ? or like I mentioned, good cordless power drills.

Interesting read. I did notice that in the article it said it is the number of cells that gives li-ion more life which makes sense. Comparing the li-ion 10s4p (40 cells) vs lipo - 5s 8000ah x4 (20 cells) with the offset that iipo have more volume for the same space resulting in more punch.

Ok guys, fun topic, But if I don’t want to be a zombie tomorrow. I gotta catch some sleep. Gladly respond tomorrow !

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Haha it is 10:40 am here in Australia. You had better get some sleep. Thanks again for all your help.

With regard to consumer products I believe the reasoning is just mass scale translates to cheaper products and having a standard dimension for the cell for different devices means they can all buy the cells from the same manufacturer, but that doesn’t really have anything to do with the performance of the cells or the chemistry going on inside them. All I’m saying in general is both of them are dangerous and you should be cautious either way, don’t treat 18650 package like it’s somehow tamed the lithium-ions inside :slight_smile:

The write up here goes into more elaborate detail and does point out the 18650 cells shell stops the cell from expanding/contracting which can prolong its life but I don’t know that I’ve seen anyone actually get 1000 cycles out of any cell. Mostly everything I’ve seen says they range from 300-500 regardless of packaging but again I imagine this all depends on how you stress them both in charging and discharging (Tesla’s get extreme longevity out of 18650 cells by not fully utilizing their capacity from what I’ve read) http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Prolong-the-Life-of-an-18650-Battery/

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Thanks for your input i will have a read. By the way does anyone know if i can use the enertion fast charger that is on sale to charge the raptor 2 battery with or without bms? I am assuming i can seeing as though it was designed to charge the same battery (admittedly through the raptors bms) It must be a standard 42 volt charger right?

All phones I’ve seen are lipo. Lion are inherently safer on the cell level. I think the reason we’ve seen more lion packs catch fire then lipo is because all these lion packs are being made by diyers. Look at any cell testing and 18650’s are much safer.

You are going to need a female DC power jack wired in parallel to the pack in order to charge to charge the pack straight off the Enertion charger. Would highly recommend the aforementioned BMS as you can solder the DC jack to the designated charging spots on the BMS and solves the problem of balancing.

For me going with a lion pack eliminated a lot of wiring as far as the series and parallel configurations of the Lipos I had in the past.

@strattos can you elaborate on inherently safer… I mean I understand the likelihood of puncture with a lipo pouch is higher than with a metal cylinder around it but I don’t see it as inherently safer. With the solid cylinder there is an escape vent for the gas/heat to blow out of in case of a failure but the most recent PSA the poster commented about them shooting off like rockets which doesn’t sound super safe (packing together 40-60 of them is going to be more dangerous than an individual cell, more points of failure and chain reaction).

@bandrews510 I was thinking about this earlier in this thread as well, if you do the 2S or 3S in sets then the wiring does get more unwieldy I went with 5S which is less than ideal in terms of the thickness, but along with some 3d prints makes hooking them up and disconnecting easier.

I can definitely see the convenience angle of BMS but I just don’t like the idea of all the components on there rattling around all the time then trusting them to balance my cells really. Only ones I saw that I’d trust plus price of quality 18650 pack was just too much of a gap for me.

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You can do it with this type of charger, then you don’t need to wire up a BMS.

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I ordered that exact one through www.buildkitboards.com

He is a fellow diy’er on this forum (@JLabs)

I’ve had lithium ion cells vent in my hands (I was wearing thin gloves and didn’t notice the heat build up).

All your safety concerns would be addressed by pack design Imo. Cells should be properly secured so they can’t go flying off like rockets.

Of course different chemistries have different dangers for 18650’s but as a general rule of thumb they’re essentially lipo’s in a strong container designed to fail the same way.

The biggest issue I personally find with battery builds is that people aren’t monitoring what’s going on down there temp wise current wise Nada. The only reason I’m using a bms is because I can actively monitor 2 temperature sensors current in current out and individual cell voltages all the good stuff.

Just look at some cell data sheets for a 30Q. Would you put a lipo in a 140C oven for 7 hours, would you crush a lipo, would you overcharge a lipo with 4x the voltage and amperage intended to be charged at? 30Q’s passed all of those tests with L1 failure (defined as leakage).

Now I’m not gonna lie I didn’t check any datasheets for major Lipo manufacturers that are being used for eskate’s.

But in my personal experience I’d much rather have an 18650 vent in front of me then a lipo pack.

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That’s great. If I got the raptor 2 pack would it give me the range I need (35km with a few smaller hills). Will be using dual focbox with 6374 190kv

Why use xt60 instead of regular charger port?

10wh/km is fairly common, the battery is 432wh

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In his case he presented he had no bms or charger plug. Wanted to buy a R2 spare battery and a charger. What’s the easiest and cheapest (not recommended) way of making that charge and connect to the rest of the system?

There is no such thing bro. All lion (as far as 2015 for sure) how would you adress the fast charging without puffing packs. Or the limited charge cycles?

Just use a classic charger, 30Q are really amazing cells and can self balance themselves