You have to remember that Mongo, Redhat, MySQL as examples began as open source. And they do still have free editions available. As well as corporate / enterprise edition versions that provide extra features and support – and they cost mega-bucks for that version. Just this past week we wanted to start using MongoDB at work… and the price for (3) nodes and sharding and memory storage headed into the $100,000’s. Lol was a shock. Even Linus Torvalds got paid $150,000,000 in RedHat stock when they went public. So there was / is some great open source wealth out there.
The difference though – all of those products have open source editions and none tried to do a generic blanket all trademark name BS which I don’t know is even enforceable. i.e. it’s like saying can’t use the word Linux… only RedHat can. And Redhat isn’t the only Linux commercial vendor… what about Debian, or Fedora, etc. Curious to see if Trampa takes somebody to court and it sticks. Well probably too expensive to find out. Likely people will stop using the VESC name before that. But it would be interesting to test the law.
Yeah we have “Oracle” DBA’s who don’t understand the NoSQL pricing model likely they overpaid for something. It’s a very large company… that’s what they quoted… maybe some Tier 1 support from them too. You work for a startup so likely you didn’t get dealt that way.
EDIT: Lol, let’s take this offline… we gonna put people to sleep
From a fairly new member as far as the guys in this thread go; I will never buy a single piece of Trampa hardware. This is an absolutely ridiculously atrocious way to alienate an entire community of a very niche market. Most people here aren’t so brand loyal that they’re willing to pay 2-3 1/2 times market value because it says Vesc…Get FOCed
That’s the scariest shit i’ve read all day and none of that even occurred to me, but it probably should have. I’m a web developer and have been using open source tools for 20 years. I watched mysql rise and get eaten, maria drop out of that, apache grow from shit bandaided together into the world’s number one web service platform, endless policy and standards battles, and then this.
If that stuck it would set the worst precedent we’ve ever seen for os legal buttfuckery. There’s no way a sane judge with eyeballs and a proper legal team could let that happen. I’d be willing to hack pacer if it meant getting that out of the light.
The VESC TM policies are pretty much a straight copy of the Linux TM policies. Yes, Linux is trademarked! So there is not to much difference. No one complains about Linux and all the other well known OS projects having a TM. Funny… Pretty much all of them have a TM and use a OS copyleft license. Probably for a good reason…
And there is nothing wrong about that.
Everyone wants the software to be Open source, and the very foundation of that is the OS-copyleft-license. So where is the problem? The GPL is giving everyone the right to use the code free of charge, as long as certain things are being respected. The code for VESC-Tool is GPLed and available. There is no blanket.
Linux has been around since i was in highschool. the people complaining have grown tired, died, or given up on complaining publicly. But believe me, i’ll bet there’s a lot of people drinking themselves to sleep at night swearing Linus Torvald’s name. Torvalds is a man with vision and of respect. Executing that vision and commanding that respect takes grit. A seriously accomplished individual of recognizable stature and class. And a lot of people hate the way he has treated developers in the community. He’s been known to engage in tyrannical tirades featuring personal attacks over simple semantics.
Noone will ever complain about you the way they complain about Linus Torvalds or Linux.
However, I just want people, vendors, users etc to be aware of copyleft-licenses. This all I wanted to start a debate about. Those licenses are the only instrument available to allow sharing you copyright.
It’s a good thing they exist and you should be aware of how they work.
What do you want then you yourself not aware of this stuff? Please just stop your making fun of yourself already. You want others to be aware then you guys yourself are not aware not even 10% and coming here with shit storming trying to make everyone to do as you wish.
The whole VESC is based of several reference designs and code is also not even 40% handwritten its pieced together solution on which you putted TM and now you ask everyone to be aware of license then you yourself not include any single dependency license that you use. So just please STOP it
Well it seems you were the one that needed the lecture. I am going to completely honest, you have contributed nothing but FUD to this community and @onloop is 100% correct. You have killed the VESC.
@frank Why don’t you perpetually license the “vesc” letter combination to the general public? What reason is it that you continue to choose not to do this?
Please, enlighten us. Let’s discuss it. Because unless/until you do, the worst & most shady reasons will be assumed by the public at large.
Also, “VESC Tool” is already licensed under GPL (copyleft) and the VESC hardware itself, designs including the word “VESC”, is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0 (share-alike), so it’s unlikely you have any kind of solid case, anyway. These two licenses specifically prevent what Stallman called “hoarding”.
So it would seem on the outside all you are doing is losing face by trying to hoard. And then opening a thread about not hoarding.
@b264 this is completely off topic, but here are your answers.
a) Because you can’t license a TM to the public. That would contradict its purpose.
b) A TM serves the purpose that customers/users can identify the original or a specific source.
c) Benjamin owns it, so its up to him.
d) The TM assures that only he can brand or license products/software that he approved to meet his quality standards.
e) without a TM, someone can hijack an OS project, grabbing a domain, using the same brand name and making the service look identical. Uninformed users could not see the difference and would believe they deal with the original source.
f) products a poor quality, marketed under the same brand name, have a negative impact on the brand itself.
g) GPL and CC both don’t license assigned TM’s. They license the covered work only
So if everyone in the OS-World uses TMs, there is probably a very good reason for it.
And since you don’t know what the future will bring, you better have a TM.
YOU WANT TO WIN? You want to stick it to Jason and win our hearts? Lower the price to $150. Make it up in your boards. Make it up in other ways. Until then… it’s all scum-baggery. I know your biggest issue… is that you don’t believe in us. If the price is right and the feeling is right… you will take a small cut on a component and win. And win big. Your boards are sexy… it was a phase for me. They wobble a bit… but on the sexy still. The E-MTB’s rule on the mountain.
You can have it all… and you can win. You can be the reference design and what people aim for. And at a price point that people will have to consider. This is what winners do. I think you pull out your calculator each time… and decide… “F them… not me”. Reverse… back-peddle. Admit your mistake and survive… show humbleness and win. Your defiance… will destroy you.
Your all this talk makes me want to go fork the code rewrite from scratch (I was intending to do because there are newer chips which are cheaper) Make it completely MIT proof and then release to the public and then I would like to see what your TM branded bullshit will look like against completely open source project?
