Maybe they paid Vedder for the use of the VESC trademark?
It was free to use until the free marketing was done. Now the same who show the thing to the wild they cannot use it anymore, or pay for it. Curious
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Wondering since the TM is registered under Vedder’s name, if he is licensing it to Trampa. I don’t mind Vedder making some money based on his efforts and know-how, if that’s the case. Prefer that he owns the TM rather than a Trademark Troll owning it. Licensing can be simpler way to make some $$ compared to manufacturing.
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@trampa Trademark enforcement, in this instance is absolutely NOT for the good if the customer, it’s to protect profit.
From my point of view you are protecting profits for a products that we as a community at least partially developed. Frankly, without @onloop, @torqueboards, @oriol360, @okp and their commercial successes with the VESC then Mr. Vedder would have created a product with no outlet and no value. It seems that now you are stepping in and taking advantage of that product growth and potential growth by way of lawyers not innovation.
I’ve seen this hundreds of times. It systematic of what wrong with the “profitablity” mindset in this era. Anything you can do legally must be ok. Nevermind that the customer is given less choice and higher prices, that people that are willing to risk time and capital to grow a product now are not willing, nevermind that I’ve spent 1200 bucks on VESCs alone in the last 6 months but I can call em VESC’s anymore.
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I am a technician not a lowyer, but if I understand your comment and the trademark policy on the homepage correctly @esk8 isnt that wrong with his VESK8:
on the policy page the secound example is
Correct: “your product name” based upon “Mr.Vedder mark” example: XYZ Controller based upon the VESC® Open Source Project
And this is the picture that @esk8 posted in no words…just pictures delete words use pm modified by myself to show only one VESK8
In my opinion the only thing that is missing is the (R) after the VESC
Please help me out, I realy wanna understand that
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It seems to me that if you are giving credit where legal obligation is due but nearly completely changing the name then as obligated then you should be fine. If any profiteers want to litigate and submit a proper cease and desist then the onerous falls on them. Without such proper documentation its just barking. I think the final word has to come from BV himself anyways. As of yet it is just one company pounding their chest and announcing that they won. What has BV said on the matter?
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The Policy states: You can’t use VESC on a product legally, nor use it endorse or advertize products in the scope of the TM.
You can’t use Vesk instead of Vesc or Wezk or Fesk. Phonetic similarity is not allows by TM legislation. When you sell or endorse, advertise towards Europe or sit in Europe, don’t use VESC or any other project related TM.
And yes, TM trolls are out there and they try to hijack Projects and sue projects. Owning the TM is essential for a project. Anyone believing you could run a OS project without the ownership of the TM is dead wrong. Trouble will come up sooner than later. This world is full of gready folks trying to ride on everyone’s back and having zero ethos. If you don’t protect a project against that, its almost certain that some folk will try to take over the Brand. You can fight that if you have plenty of cash and time but it will take years and years and tenth of thousands of dollars and nerves. So basically a project being hijacked has no other chance than a full restart. Since the code is OS, hijackers can take over the project with ease.
I can’t believe that some people think its bad that Benjamin and the Project is now protected against attacks. You will find plenty of stories where OS projects have been hijacked. If a project gets successful, its almost certain that someone will grab the TM! I’m already sick of domain-grabbing. TM grabbing is so much more worse!
So anyone saying its a bad thing that VESC is a TM, owned by BV, is basically wanting the Project to go through all that mess and wants some prick to own the TM instead of BV. GREAT idea! Yes, its for the good of the Project, believe me!!!
Frank
Read this:
Frank
I agree that BV having the trademark is the best possible person to have the trade mark. The issue is why can you sell VESC’s on your website and everyone else has to take it down + why can’t VESCs continue to be marketed as VESCS (and BV justs protects other pricks from stealing the TM and using it to a competitive advantage that destroys the VESC).
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So, all this time the open and cooperative use and free promotion of vesc was ok but now that the vesc has matured into its most stable state and incidentally one company seems to have brokered an exclusive deal with (causing the posted price to more than double) there are “threats” everywhere? Seems legit, nothing to see here…
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This looks more like the US foreign policy strategy in profitable war zones. #justsayin
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Did trampa make the Vesc? I thought the name was Vedder’s esc. Not Trampa’s esc. Since the name is TM. I think trampa should change it on thier website and when they mention it as well. Would seem fair under the terms?
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Because we make - in cooperation with BV - the original Hardware. Benjamin can control the quality and has gains.
After Beta testing, the Software will be published and a reference hardware design. Anyone can start to design and make Hardware and Software! You can set your own price!
Unfortunately a TM can’t be allowed to be used randomly, because its against the nature of a TM (serving the purpose that customers can identify the original source). Letting everyone use the TM and then randomly pick on someone is not fair and legally not possible.
If you do something, stand in with your own good name! Build up a Brand with a good reputation and offset your products from your competitions. Its in your very own interest to do that anyway.
Have you ever bought a Windows Computer other than from Microsoft? Probably not. You probably bought a Lenovo, Acer, whatever, running Windows.
In future you buy a Xyz ESC capable of running VESC-Tool since the VESC-Project is 95% software related.
Its Sundays folks, I have two kids jumping around and wanting my attention.
Things are the way they are for a good reason. Benjamin and I spent a lot of time on making decisions! It’s the only way to handle things if you look closer at the matter. We can’t change legislation!
Frank
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Unless they can prove otherwise it appears that Trampa has brokered an exclusive deal with Vedder. They aren’t openly saying this, they are acting the part of “defender and champion” of Vedder’s intellectual property to deflect from the obvious optics of the situation. The optics aren’t good, not good at all. I think we would all like to see a statement from Benjamin himself. I think that the community that supported and embraced him and his work deserves at least that.
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Benjamin has a published a statement! A bit of patience please. Give him the time to finish things before starting yelling around. Vesc-Tool is tons of work and the foundation for any future hardware design.
We need Beta to be able to cope with the feedback.
Frank
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I hope we see a statement soon it would defintely clear things up
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@Lambjr088 TM stands for trademark. Read the whole thread (especially @onloop’s reply) to understand the VESC’s history.
I agree that either @trampa should explain why he is exempt from Vedder’s trademarks or Vedder should explain what he himself wants to do with HIS trademarks. I fully understand why Vedder took out the trademarks but think that he should definitely license reliable sellers (fee per VESC sold) to sell his amazing open source product - no shipping cost to different continents if suppliers in each continent.
Thank you for explaining about the TM @trampa, enjoy your Sunday with your kids. I don’t understand your reference to Microsoft nor how other sellers like ‘esk8.de’ are not using the original hardware. The software of the VESC is vital but as you said in another thread, the VESC 4 doesn’t have the capability to run the latest software - the hardware has also changed hugely. I would also like to point out that the hardware is what others are selling and those that sell the original hardware should be allowed to do so and call it a VESC. However, I do agree that other sellers selling ESCs that are NOT designed by Vedder but still running VESC firmware (e.g. VESC-X) should not have the permission to have VESC in the name. These ESCs should, as you have said, have written in the description ‘based on the VESC designed by Benjamin Vedder’.
As for:[quote=“trampa, post:37, topic:23017”] We can’t change legislation! [/quote] Vedder can keep the trademark but only use it legally against VESCs that do not use his original hardware. Vedder has not used his trademark for a year (correct me if I am wrong) and hence does not NEED to use it.
The esk8 community seems to be full of people who want to do make their market better, but using this trademark wrongly seems to be stifling this open-source, make the community better ethos.
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I use only Aplle Since no windows on it
I did not want to give the Vesc another name! But Trampa has say me to do it! I wanted to use the name VESK8! But that does not allow Trampa! Trampa can do anything with her Koperatin with Vedder With the name Vesc. We must accept that What Trampa says that is so Unfortunately
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Nobody is arguing that Vedder needs to be able to make a living on his design. Nobody is arguing that business is business.
The issue here is that the way in which we are discovering this transition is vague and non-transparent. The people that championed this project when it was nothing deserve some clarity.
Don’t play this community as fools. All this spin is just too much, we deal with it in our daily lives and awful political climate. Esk8 is our escape from all that spin and rubbish. Until now it was our escape from it all.
If you want to repair the damaged optics of this situation please get out in front of it and be honest. The dancing around the truth is painfully obvious. I was planning my next build around a Trampa platform… I’m not sure now. Its like when Metallica went after people downloading songs. People stopped buying their music after that. Again, bad optics.
You know full well that the vesc name has become synonymous with the tech. Its like calling all tissue Kleenex. Legally you may rule the day, but it’s hearts and minds that must be won in order to truly win. The ball is clearly in your court. We’ll just have to wait and watch what you do next.
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@onloop You are right and Trampa may use only the name VESC alone. So they throw everyone out of the business, who has sold VESC so far. This is the thanks to all the people who participated in the VESC. So it is certain that TRAMPA can make a lot of money. I bought many things at ESK.DE and am still with today Very satisfied and it holds unlike Yuneec and Evolve. No matter what name esk8.de used for the VESC, I will go on with them shopping. I have now 5 boards with which I drive only with the VESC of esk8.de and if you protect this also a little protects the VESC forever.
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