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HUB Motors - what range are you getting?


#1

Guys. So I wanna make my very first build with single or dual hub motors and I want to use new Enertion Space CELL 4 battery.
The thing that bothers me the most is …what range are you guys getting with your hubs ??

The new Space Cell 4 has 360WH. If the general rule is 1km per 10WH than it should be 36km ( let’s please forget about body weight / speed / hills here just for the sake of this conversation).
I can see a lot of people with belt motors getting 30 to 40km of range without any problems.
I asked some people here and it seems like a lot of them are usually getting 10-15 km range with their hubs. The biggest range I saw were people getting max 20km range. Even when they used massive 12s3p batteries.

The f*ck is wrong with hub motors that people are getting short range ? I just don’t get it.
If you can, please post your single/dual hub motor / battery / range results here !! I’d appreciate it !!


#2

I’ve use 12s 4500mah and two hub motors. It depends a lot on what the terrain is of course and I haven’t measured specific distances but really u should get better range than a pulley-wheel set-up because the hub motors roll better.
I get maybe 10 miles


#3

I’ve tested both dual hub motors and dual belt drive with an inline watt meter on the same battery pack and same Esc’s and found that hub motors draw more amps than belt drive setups because of the lack of gear reduction.
Specifically, the hubs Drew 50amps and the belt drive drew 30 amps to go up the same hill at about the same speed. And this is why belt drives get better range.


#4

What hub motors? If the kv is good and the wheel circumference isnt too big…they should at least do better on flats.


#5

Hub motors 145 KV 90mm wheels
Belt drive 230 KV 16/36 pulleys 90mm wheels.
Comparison done on a 10% grade
Running 12s


#6

Hub motor simply draws more amps, especially during acceleration. If you like throttle punching without big capacitors they could spike really high giving stress to batteries and drawing tons of power. Although single belt drive have higher roll resistance, it doesnt provide higher roll resistance for the motors. More over there is only 1 wheel that have higher rolling resistance while the rest is free whelling. Hub motor has less rolling resistance when its being pushed, however it produce higher rolling resistance to the motor. More over the lower kv is a sign that they draw more amps.

On top of that normally people with hub is running dual hub drive, which means 2 motors. Just like belt drive, 2 motors means less distance. With dual hub its also drawing even more power. While there are only 2 free wheels, the free rolling also is not alot compared to 3 wheels free rolling.

Take into account also rotations of motor. Most motor have certain rated speed where it rotates on certain rpm with highest torque output while drawing less amps. Normally brushless outrunner achive this at significantly higher speed! Therefore single belt drive reaches this easily, while having no issue drawing less amps from acceleration due to gearing.

Hub motor could reach nice efficiency I believe about 25-30kmh++ while belt drive achieve this way earlier at around 15kmh-20kmh. I dont have solid proof but I can tell the difference by just hearing the sound the motor produces while drawing amps.

Depends on terrain, where you ride, your weight, your avg speed and how you throttle up. This all could affects ur distance. I believe that hub motor will be more efficient, but chances are they need to be ridden longer at higher avg speed.


#7

A motor with a lower kv will have more inductance (torque) per amp. 145kv is not low and the motor will have to compensate with more amps of course but If the motor kv is a third lower than a motor with a 3:1, all other things being equal, it should produce the same torque no? There are limitations to how much torque u can get out of a motor based on other things like the stator size and how far the shaft of the motor is from the airgap, and these are absolute limits which won’t allow any more torque no matter how many turns of wire u put on a tooth. What that limit is and how much weight could go up what incline I don’t know.


#8

Namasaki so what range do you get on your 12s3p and dual carvons ?


#9

Great data! this is the info the community needs…


#10

I’m not using a 12s 3p.
I’m using 2 Zippy compact 6s 5000/25 Lipos in series.
I have gone 7 mi with my hub motors without setting off the voltage alarms.
That included flats, short uphills and downhills.
With 2 Venom 6s 2500/25 packs in series, I went 5 mi. on strictly flat. The Venom lipos are much more expensive than Zippy’s.
I’m doing about 7 mi with belt drives as well but I’m not running the batteries as low before swapping them out. A true comparison test would be running each on flat ground until the alarm goes off.
I have not yet done that test.
It is my unbiased opinion that both belt drive and hub motors have There strengths and weaknesses.
Let’s forget about duration for a moment and talk about performance.
Belt drives out perform hubs on hills, especially on grades above 10%.
Hubs out perform belt drives on flat ground in terms of top speed and quick responsive acceleration.
I recomend belt drive if your climbing lots of hills.
I recomend hub drive if your running mostly flat.
Hubs tend to run hotter than belt drives because of higher amp draw but I have found that it’s not an issue when running mostly flat. That said,
I would recomend the Carvon hub motors because they have the best anti- heat design. The sleeves that protect the barrels from rocks, also draw heat out of the motors while fans draw air through the motors. I worry that a hub motor sealed inside the wheel would be more prone to over heat although I have not personally tested that design.


#11

Todays ride stats
-CarvOn V2 dual
-Dual VESC
-12S (3x 4S Nanotech 6000mAh)

-19,88km
-Time 1h 11min
-Voltage 4.2 -> 3.7 per cell
-Avg. speed 16,6 km/h

Detailed stats: https://www.movescount.com/moves/move104068739


#12

Nice stats bro.
I should have mentioned with my Carvon dual going 7 mi on 5000 mah
I’m going flat, uphill and down hill and going between 15 and 20 mph most of the time


#13

do you think the startup torque could be better with a better battery?


#14

Even with 12s power and dual motors, it’s best to push off with a couple kicks before engaging the motors.
A system with sensored motors can start from a stop but I would still push off manually.


#15

I just logged 12 mi on my 12s 5000 mah zippy compact with my dual belt drive with some up hill and down hill and some flat. Still had 44.4v left.
Belt Drives rock when it comes to mileage.


#16

Do you think a 12s (2 x 6s nanotech 6000mAh)
set up would get less distance or more? Since its the same capacity but just less in series.

Also I was wondering if the C rating of each cell would affect the acceleration.

Even with in 6s nanotechs so many mAh and C ratings to choose from.

I’m in my final part of the build and all I need to make are the batteries


#17

Wish there was a valid comparison to see if hubs can get better range on flats. Of course it would depend on the hubmotor size. Jerry’s carveon are huge and if u can change the kv by switching from delta to wye(maybe going motor strand by motor strand if they’re still separated through the leads) the no-load would be lower. I’d think they’d be faster


#18

You will have the same Wh! It will have the same ride time / distance. The only difference is less heat, less stressing for the battery and more topspeed.[quote=“broshi, post:16, topic:2826”]
Also I was wondering if the C rating of each cell would affect the acceleration.
[/quote]
You need amperage for the acceleration. 60a continous and you are good to go. 40 would be okay to but not as much fun as 60… these are just rough numbers i read sometimes here in the forum.


#19

You mean 60a per motor ?


#20

Yes, i mean 60a per motor. So it may be less a on the battery side (depends on the voltage).