Got chains? screw belts! - 3D model of flywheel sprocket mount for 04B30T sprocket

yes. lower kv = more torque. in a city-commute scenario I definitely prefer a board with torque and a short wheelbase to carve my way through and with just enough speed to leave cyclists behind. i rarely hit top speeds…its mostly stop and go. a quick start when the lights turn green is just soooo satisfying. thats why i went with a chain drive because the last thing i wanna do is repair my board while im on my way to work.

you are saying sprockets without a hub? https://www.gearsandsprockets.co.uk/6mm-04b-platewheel-simplex-sprockets/

heres a lot of them for dirt money, not hardened tho

nice pics :smiley:

To my knowledge there is no difference when it comes to performance between a delta configured motor and a star configured motor with the same kv-rating and the same weight of copper in the windings. It is just two ways to do the same thing ^^

For me the reconfiguration meant that I could increase the torque with a 1.73 factor without having to change the gear ratio.

Wow that’s awesome. I may have to do that. Was going 9:27 reduction, and concerned about the noise, but if i can go to 15:27 instead, that should fix it

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NVM, no free lunch. Star windings effectively have more turns as the current runs through two of the three phases at once, rather than just one of the phases as in delta. Hence with the same diameter wire and same number of turns, star will have higher wire resistance and lower current capability, but lower kv as well. I’m not certain, but I think its something like 1/2 the current capacity, and 59% the Kv. So net probably not a good trade off

yes, sprockets without hubs. strangely, they dont seem to have 04b 30 teeth without hubs. if you need a 30 teeth sprocket without a hub then it seems you need to go for 05b. you also have more options teeth-count wise with the 05b which means more flexibilty in gear ratio choice and a stronger chain on top of that.

just make sure that if youre using motors with a 6mm shaft that your motor sprockets bore actually fits. i just checked and found out that the min. standard bore is 8mm for a 05b 10 teeth…so youre outta luck here if you are using motors with a 6mm shaft.

i noticed my chain was not aligned properly so I re-aligned it. that should improve noise levels, efficiency and longevity.

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edit btw. the chain is pretty clean after a few rides. i had to wipe off excess “Squirt” from the chain after the first ride but appart from that my drive is clean. What bugs me though is that my motor sprocket gets loose now and then. just a minor issue tho…chain seem to vibrate more and loosen up the grub screw.

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Many large synchronous motors are started using a star configuration. Once the motor has sufficient RPM the windings is changed to delta. In this way, the motor will consume less current during start-up (due to the increase of resistance between the motor phases) and exhibit larger start-up torque. The windings is changed to delta to reach the motor speed it is designed for.

It is true that a star configured motor will get hotter than a delta configured motor with the same current. However, to output the same torque, only 1/sqrt(3) = 57.8 % of the current is needed in the star configuration compared to the delta configuration. So you can effectively lower the motor current setting in bldc-tool. :slight_smile:

I just created a ‘Sprocket Generator’ using OpenSCAD. You can find it on Thingiverse. Sprocket Generator V2 - OpenSCAD

This can easily be used to design a sprocket for your application and be downloaded directly as a .stl file used in slicing software for 3D-printing.

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@haand22 thanks for the sprocket generator! thats useful for prototyping and trying out gear ratios!

rewiring the motor from delta to star is an interesting idea. im still trying to wrap my head around it. a “star” motor requires less current for the same amount of torque compared to a “delta” motor. this is true at lower rpm? meaning it will have more “starting” torque correct? at higher rpm the “star” motor gets hotter (?) = less efficient (the reason for switching to “delta” once higher rpm is reached).

i can see the advantage at lower rpm but how will it effect efficiency at higher rpm in our application? i recall reading motors reaching peak efficiency at around 8000 rpm. most of all how will the VESC be effected with a “star” motor. is there a risk it will blow the VESC?

First of all, the big trade-off between star and delta is torque vs. motor speed. The star configured motor will only spin 1/sqrt(3) as fast as the delta motor due to the lower kv rating. Instead it will have sqrt(3) times the torque throughout the operating range for the same current. So you might decrease your top speed ^^

Star or delta doesn’t really matter when it comes to efficiency in terms of motor speed. The motor will have roughly the same peak efficiency at the same electrical rpm (no the same as rpm or mechanical rpm).

Vedder writes:

Now we know that copper losses are proportional to the square of the torque produced by the motor, and at low RPM and high load they are dominant. As RPM increases, other losses start to add up exponentially. In my experience, these losses start to get significant around 60k electrical RPM, which for a 14-pole motor is about 8570 mechanical rpm (most 50mm+ outrunners have 14 poles, some unusual ones have 18). Because of the square relation, it is desirable to run at as high speed and low torque as possible as long as we stay below 8.6k RPM

So just make sure that your max e-rpm setting in bldc is below like 68 krpm ^^

Speaking of efficiency: Power losses is highly associated with current. Ohm’s law says P_{loss} = U * I = R * I^2. Heat losses increases squared with current so reducing the current (lower kv) will increase the efficiency as less heat in generated.

The vesc can’t possible sense if the motor is star or delta. You will have to perform a new motor detection ofc to find the new winding resistance, induction etc. for the new configuration. I have been running star since May and it works like a charm!

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:face_with_raised_eyebrow: that´s does it. now you got me even more confused :grin: thanks for explaining. I gotta digest that information there.

btw. I uploaded an stl of the flywheel sprocket adapter for a 04B 30 Teeth sprocket with a 30mm hub. Get it here. You may use the model under this license

have fun.

I got a chance to ride my board till I ran out of juice yesterday and I could go the 13km distance my cells are supposedly capable of. according to the esk8 calculator the efficiency of my setup is around 90-91% with a 13km range. seems very accurate.

I had hard accelerations as always (just the way I love riding) so I was´nt riding and trying to save energy. and now my calves still hurt a bit from yesterday :rofl: what can i say, i´m getting old and i´m obviously not used to riding 13km :sweat_smile:

anyway, thanks to @lowbudgetguy for the company :slight_smile:

Ah shucks,

I don´t mean to ressurect this old thread BUT, thanks to @ Bingoe3 I just realised that I forgot to post the other half of the adapter. And btw. If you´re planning to use this adapter, you´ll also need 6x 60mm M4 screws (use lock-nuts) You guys can grab it here if you need it:

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