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Discussion about DIY vendors, delivery delays, communication, and transparency


@vanarian you arrive with magic sauce just as i finally figure out why and how welds break to the point of accurately predicting and preventing it. I’m on the fifth iteration of this particular stacking pattern and now that i’ve got it bullet proof…

yes please let me try whatever you’re doing.


What was going on with your welds? Any way I could help?


The thread should stay, it is yet another example of your malicious intent. I think @guyguy summed you up the best during another one of your attacks from a year ago. Please take a long look in the mirror and at least try to see where you went wrong. Nobody here is handing out pitchforks.

I also want to add, and I think I speak for almost everyone here, don’t piss on the new members of the community like you just did to @DerelictRobot.


Basically unforeseen flex inside the pack. I was failing to see that there could even be flex happening in the places it was happening, so it would cause damage i couldn’t really see a reason for. I’ve known how to build flexible packs this whole time but i was mis-diagnosing the cause of the damage as vibrational stress, which now that i think about it was pretty dumb. The solution is simple, just no longer weld series connections at all ever. The battery in my current board was modified this way and i’ve been doing everythign conceivable to break it and no matter what i do it stays balanced and charges fully.

What makes it so challenging is stuffing 60 cells into a package as compact as mine. Welding series connections saves time and space, but when the pack flexes it will cause ripples that will tear and pop nickel in places that doesn’t even make sense some times.

its just insane to me that the pack flexes at all the way i have it floating. Lesson learned.


@longhairedboy Have you tried a the superglue method that @PXSS use? I tried in some old cells and they are extremely rigid taking almost all stress from the nickel

Would only work for the parallel groups of course, but could increase the reliability even more


@Photorph I love this post. Didn’t disagree with any of it. Hope these vendors really do improve.


I love Jamie’s stand on things… he says… I don’t take people’s money until it’s finished… therefore I don’t feel pressured… and yeah on 200 deck is one thing… compared to few thousand dollar board… but what most people get pissed about is not quality… it truly is the lack of communication … @chaka I understand there are tons of issues… and yeah it’s time consuming but see where Jason went form being totally silent, videos of his Whiskey BS to open up what’s the problem with the factories etc… @barajabali seen him sweating his ass off in China… just brings you closed to the realizations this is not as easy as everyone thing…


You do realize we have already sent all our pre-orders out dont you? We also promptly sent anyone who asked for a refund their money without taking a 20%" restocking fee. To add, we also provide free return shipping if anyone has issues with our boards along with free repairs.


yeah…I’m sure or they complained to their credit card companies and got the money back .but dude… come down from the throne and become normal… why is it so difficult to understand… well all routed for you guys… and because we didn’t say anything and watched doesn’t mean that didn’t affect us… I’m not saying this to harm your or other builders business… so please don’t take that stand… quite the opposite I’m trying for you guys to see it from our perspective… and at certain point is no longer a money issue… … and seeing that the damaged image is very hard to repair… this is what? a 5 year old franchise that somehow few of the people thing they are the royalty and rest are peasants… while Chinese companies slowly infiltrate the forums and markets and will drive you away… it’s been happening for last 2 years… so if the end client relationship doesn’t work, money will be the secondary… You might not charge 20% fee as Enertion does but that’s a policy people accept when they buy their product… ultimately I know you all want to make it right and to satisfy everyone is impossible but I have seen this very much in kayaking industry as well… Paddlers loved to paddle… they didn’t really have business mindset… very difficult to change that because the next person might not be another enthusiast … it might be someone who just wants to have product for their money… on promised time… … help yourself as well… cheers Archee


@Nanorider Here’s a fact…every kickstarter ever done that was over 20 bucks lasted at least a year. You complaints about time are irrelevant and unfounded.

@Photorph I’ve contacted the 4 people you suggested to the best of my ability, not a single one messaged me back. They either don’t care enough to get some resolution or it’s not a big deal.

For everyone else…

This all started calling out all DIY vendors. Turns out the only people @Photorph had issues with were @longhairedboy, @LEVer & @chaka. @longhairedboy has answered every question thrown at him and @Photorph seems satisfied. @I think @chaka has answered everything asked of him, gave quick refunds to those that wanted it.

@chaka & @OllinBoardCompany has decided to ignore this conversation. I honestly cannot say I blame them.

Point by point here are my issues with the arguments in this thread…

  1. I’ve explained over and over that kickstarter campaigns take a long time, its normal and to be expected.
  2. Sure some people made incorrect, even bad, estimates on delivery timelines but I haven’t seen any evidence of theft or even dishonesty.
  3. LHB had some welds break, 3 years ago when everyone here was still trying to figure out how to make a good battery.

This entire industry is in its infancy, these are experimental small-batch products, this aint Walmart. Understand that and you will be a happy customer 99% of the time. Keep acting like your ordering from Amazon, then your feeling are gonna get hurt and vendors are gonna stop selling to you.

In closing. I think you (@Photorph) owe the vendors here an apology for the way you handled this. I really can’t even imagine a worse way of trying to let people know that you have some issues with Vendors. There’s a reason why your supposed to look people in the eye when you argue. By trying to keep everything anonymous you looked dishonest and petty and were incredibly offensive. When you finally started talking TO people, instead about ghosts, questions got answered.

I still feel like you should be banned for this. You haven’t said anything in this thread or in PM’s between us to make me feel any different. The only think you achieved here is to make our community look a little worse than it did yesterday. We will recover but I doubt you will ever be welcome here again.



@Photorph wants the ban, he predicted the ban on his initial reddit post and it would do nothing but validate him even more.

Don’t ban him, he can pop on every now and then and read about the amazing things the talented builders here are putting together and know that he is excluded. I feel like a ban would achieve more for him than for us at this point Mike.


Man this thing is still alive?

Ive freaking died and been reincarnated already


Not my fault those others didn’t reply. I am done with this, and that’s probably how they feel as well. It’s not worth the effort to them, because no one admits their mistAke.

I’m not sure what your definition of dishonesty is, but to me telling someone you will have your board shipped next week for months and months is dishonest.

In the end lhb responded, but my problem wasn’t with him mainly (that was the problem for other customers who never got back to you so I guess they don’t care anymore). Ollin didn’t apologize for lying. And carvon is still radio silent while they hold the money of so many with no product still for a year…who in their right mind would do business with carvon when they didn’t even reply after all this. (I just saw another thread here of ppl feeling like carvon scammed them, and yet you are here still attacking me saying it’s made up and has no basis).

I’ll be better and say I do apologize to the community for being vague initially because it’s not the community that was at fault, but what I have said in here is true about those specific individuals.

Close the thread, ban me, delete it, or keep it open, or do whatever. Doesn’t really matter, do whatever you think is right. As I’ve learned, my input means nothing here anyway.

No mic drop pic as others have done many times above. Someone else will keep this going anyway if you don’t close it.


I agree with the sentiment that this whole thing is in its infancy still.

As hardened as my current board is i’m still learning every day, and so is everyone else.


but none of these are kickstarters… Except Carvons… so please don’t mix apples and oranges here… while some would say hey this a kickstarter… it’s one thing… while other say hey your board is shipping next week, 2 weeks or already shipped or not even talking and writing… it’s a different story… why you bring kickstarter to this?


“I have read your comments towards LHB and honestly if you were to purchase from us we would decline service to you based on what you said. I don’t mean to sound harsh but we really don’t want to spend our time with customers who leach the industry dry with their litmus tests on service quality. It hurts the level of service the industry can bring to all customers as a whole. Our service is not for everyone and we do not aim to scale our production up to the level of boosted or any other mainstream brand simple as that. We made some mistakes in the past and we have corrected our course and are once again devoting the main focus of our company to the DIY market.” as I said come done from the throne mate… I have nothing from this outside my leisure riding… I ride a lot… a lot… and I spent a lot of money… on it… some I didn’t expect but I didn’t cry about it… as I said… it’s not about money mate… it’s about that approach…


I removed that comment because it was too harsh and I also realized the only reason you are here on the forum is to stir controversy and cause more drama. Nothing constructive, but yes we will likely decline to do any business with you due to your reputation. Nothing new here, its called selective demarketing, look it up you might learn something. :wink:


Vendors talk to each other about who not to sell to just as much as customers talk to each other about who not to buy from.


To be fair, I was the first one to drop a mic. Everybody else’s Mic Drop was lackluster. Especially Mike. They didn’t even invent Mics until he was in his late 30s.

I take Mic Drops very seriously. It is my other passion.

Lumping my Mic Drop with everyone else’s Mic Drop is really demeaning.

Sender’s Priorities

  1. Es8

  2. Dropping of Microphones

  3. Beer and cheese curds

  4. Family, I suppose


I’m gonna drop a mic on you with my bad ass drone :grinning: