"Buying" warranty

I am wondering. Normally extended warranty (like 2 years) is provided against manufacturing faults because the seller is convinced that his products are manufactured free of faults or he is not providing it because he is not certain.

By not providing warranty for for an extended period of time he puts the risk of his own manufacturing issues to the customer side. Lower prices are the result, since the customer is bearing that risk. It also leads to an advantage over competition regardless of quality control. Great, but it’s gambling from a customers perspective.

But then: “buying” warranty is the wring terminology, because in reality the customer is buying an insurance against the sellers manufacturing faults. Nothing else, because warranty can’t be purchased since it’s either provided by default or not.

It’s easier in the EU where you are required by law to provide a 2 years warranty. This applies for all products sold in the EU by the way! :wink:

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I have already explained this in another thread. The EU warranty thing is not as positive for the customer as some make it seem or want it to be. 6 months after the purchase the customer needs to “prove” that the fault was there from the start - this is almost impossible without expensive tests done by an expert. So everytime after the initial 6 month period a company deals with your warranty claim in your favor they do this not because they are legally required to do so. It is usually just easier for them (and makes a good impression on the customer).

What I find much more interesting is the fact that there is some weird thing with customer satisfaction: when a customer experiences good after-sales services from a company after a product was faulty, he will see the company even more positive than when the product just doesn’t get the fault in the first place. This is espacially true in your case: i have not heard of a single faulty VESC from you but everyone praises chaka for his outstanding VESCs and customer service.

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regardless of how difficult it is after 6 months, i think that we in the EU are outstanding privileged in that warranty question and other countries have a lot to learn here.

As a company you have to stand behind your product and should guarantee that it´s working.
If you can´t do that, you should probably work on that.

I think it´s strange and a no-go, that some sell products, which directly fail after arrival.

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I live in EU and I can clearly say the warranty works there. If product stops working within 2 years after purchase, we get free repair / replacement / refund. I just go to the shop where I bought it, tell them my problem and they will solve it in 30 days limit. Nobody gives a fuck about those 6 and 24 months unless it’s clearly visible it was caused by your fault ( mechanical damage etc. ) and then you have to prove it was not your fault.

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Yeah, in that case the EU is great, sellers have to give this warranty by law.
In other countries it’s much easier to sell tons of cheap chinese stuff that breaks after a few months.

The downside is, new technology arrives mass market in others countries first. We are behind the trend and esk8 will be legalised last in EU I guess.

As far as I know these regulations are the same in most of the “industrial” countries. Australia has them, the US have them. Why do people think the EU is some sort of warranty magic wonderland?

My first board (the Yuneec Ego) broke several times and the motor was replaced every time, no questions asked.
In america, they replace it once and after that the customer have to pay for further replacements, same company different country. Same wih Evolve, great in germany and bad stories from them in america.

And for example ACTON have a limited warranty of 6 months or 400miles which comes first, that sucks and would not be possible in EU.

I think EU is not a warranty-“wonderland”, but at least people over here are more accommodating and fair with providing warranty or replacements/repairs even if it’s a user fault in general.

It makes sense from a seller perspective in the EU to offer some additional repairs or replacements even if you are not obliged to do so. At least thats my experience in being a customer and a seller.

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As long as the fault happened right from the start they are not allowed to repair it just once. You are entitled to a refund.
At least that is how I understand the Uniform Commercial Code in the US.

Might be, but @chaka’s way of handling customer requirements is outstanding indeed. That’s why I always recommend US customers to buy his VESC’s. :slight_smile:

I’d rather know how you think about the initial 6 month period. You are basically obliged to give no questions asked warranties on your VESC as you can’t actually prove any error was caused by the user. A blown DVR is not a sign of the user doing something wrong but could very well be manufacture fault. How do you handle that? What about FOC? I could just buy a VESC, try it and if it breaks in the initial 6 months send it back.

(I am not saying I am interested in actually doing that - but from a business perspective I would like to know how you deal with “unfair” behavior like this)

Everything is in BETA. Sucks to have a warranty at these things for companies.

EU is regulating that with one regulated law. For example USA is handling these things differently depending on the state. Where we have 1 year warranty, they only have 90 days. Like i said other states, other rules.

Well you have to rule out some sort of errors at the user side just to protect the other users from paying for the faults of others!

At the end it’s very easy: if users are taking that kind of advantage of you when selling to them you have to consider whether it is coverable by margin or you stop selling to those customers specifically. Someone has to pay the bill at the end, it’s either the seller (out of his own pocket) or the other honest customers.

But selling “warranty” when actually selling “insurance” is another story.

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I don’t understand what you are saying. At first there is no way for you to know if the customer has bad intentions or not. After he bought the product, destroyed it and asks for a replacement he is already your customer and can ask for a replacement. You can give him a refund and stop this vicious cycle but your earnings have already taken the hit at that point anyway.

Maybe this is not an issue in real life but I always wondered how businesses can cope with this situation. Seems so unfair.

Edit: At least with other hardware like mobile phones companies have some protection against mishandling like water sensor patches. But the VESC is so exposed and has none of that. Maybe there should be some sort of internal protection like software fuses. But maybe I am also just overthinking things :slight_smile:

In the Netherlands warranty is even better, as warranty periods don’t exist, and warranty applies for a period that is deemed reasonable. For example, if your expensive high quality laundry machine from a reputable brand breaks in 4 years (whereas these kinds of products usually last much longer), it should be covered by warranty, even if the manufacturer sais it only has 2 years warranty. Usually manufacturers still print ‘2 years or 1 year warranty’ on the boxes and market as such, because they want to make you believe its limited to that time period.

In practice it can be tricky to get warranty in these cases, and only a judge can make a final ruling if the customer and manufacturer cant come to an agreement, which could mean you have to pay for the trial if you lose. Usually though, if your demands are reasonable and show you have good knowledge of the law, manufacturers will budge after an initial try to intimidate you.

Actually it is very easy: most of the VESCs I am selling are bought by industrial customers. And believe me, if there are any manufacturing faults on those VESCs, they will let me know immediately! So, knowing that, I now have to cope with privat customers, who eventually want to take advantage of warranty, right?

Now, in those cases it’s also very easy: as long as not too many are misusing warranty it’s ok. It even gives me the opportunity to repair/refund VESCs for people asking in a friendly way even though it’s maybe their fault. :slight_smile:

If there are too many of people misusing my sales policy, I just stop selling VESCs, plain simple. Because as I said, somebody will pay the bill, either it’s the honest customer or the seller.

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Makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up.
Didn’t know the VESC is used for that many industrial applications though. Would love to know who and for what they are used - but understand that you can’t talk about that.

The U.S. does have automatic warranties in all 50 states although they vary by state. These warranties apply unless the seller says the product is being sold “as is” or that a specific implied warranties don’t exist. The two implied warranties are warranty of merchantability (the product meets industry standards, it works as the consumer intends) and warranty of fitness for particular purpose (product acts in a way that meets these intended purpose). These warranties are actually broader than a warranty against manufacturing defects because if a product is say, designed incorrectly for a purpose but manufactured correctly, this warranty would apply where a manufacturing warranty would not. The duration of these warranties vary by state. Here’s a decent overview: https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0252-warranties

Nearly every product in the U.S. does come with a manufacturing warranty just because they can’t compete without one. On “purchased” warranties, in most cases they provide additional coverage over the implied warranties. Additional cost warranties are usually provided by a retailer as an additional layer of protection and normally protect against faults outside of manufacturing warranties for example, if you buy a warranty from BestBuy (electronics store here in the U.S.) their warranties also cover drops and spills which a manufacturing warranty does not. These warranties are actually priced to be profitable and retailers typically make a lot of money off of selling warranties – I don’t think some of the sellers here have done the analysis because they overcharge for warranties instead of selling them as an actual profit generating product. You should price warranties to sell as many warranties as possible, not at a price that covers your loss.

If somebody wants to buy an insurance, you should name it accordingly when selling it. And especially when making profit out of it. Might be one of those cultural and market differences around the world.