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A safe build/DB Lunchtray/"Jacob trucks"/Jacob hub Motors/ Enertion VESCs/Space cell/lipo flat pack

hubmotor
spacecell

#1

Hi guys. I’m considering building my first E skate out of my old longboard deck. I would appreciate

This is what I need out of the setup with the most important aspects first:
(1) SAFETY- I need this board to be the safest board possible- this applies to braking, batteries, motors, controller connectivity. I dont want anything overheating or cutting out unexpectedly. Although I am experienced at longboarding, foot braking and sliding, I want this board to watch out for me, hence the name.
(2) TORQUE- I am not interested in a high top speed, 15 mph is sufficient; however my commute home involves 1 km flat, 700m at approx 11-13% gradient, then 500m flat and finally 250m up an 16-20% gradient. if it can make it up and DOWN these hills, it would be great. (I weigh 70 kg)
(3) Good Value- My budget is max $1600 Australian dollars. Ideally I would spend less but what I am looking for is a long term solution. I need everything but the deck for this price.
(4) discrete- Eskates are not very legal in New Zealand (doubt police know this so as long as I ride respectfully I should be ok)but I want something that will look like a (legal) longboard as much as possible
(5)range - 10 km is enough, can take all night to charge if it wants, as long as it doesnt overheat/damage

The parts I am quite sure I want:
Enertion space cell pro 3
1 or 2 Enertion VESCs

The parts I need advice on:
Enertion remote or Nunchuck from Jacob’s website-
Nunchuck- does blootooth have a reliable connection?
Michael from wellington had issues with Enertion remote connectivity.
Not considering the GT2B for discretion concerns but I’d consider a pre-made mod like the bad wolf one if available, best if works easily with the VESC

Brake board trucks with Jacob hubmotors mounted on them
or jacob’s paris 180’s with Jacob hubmotors
or Enertion trucks with R-spec Dual 6355 motors

In an ideal world I would want to send Jacob some brakeboard trucks, him to fit his hub motors onto the braking trucks as they need that small screw in the side of the hangars, these would go in the rear and I would have a regular brakeboard trucks in the front. this would give me mechanical brakes if needed or electric brakes to recharge the battery.

if this was not possible I would then resort to having Jacob’s hub motors on the rear/front of my board pulling/pushing me and the regular brakeboard trucks on the rear/ front. What would be the best configuration? I could flip my symmetrical shaped board around for uphill/downhill if that helps

If Jacobs hub motors cant get my 70kg load up the hills I described on the way home or the brake board/hub motors on the front of the board then I would have to settle for dual R-spec 6355 motors and not be able to afford brakeboard trucks, which I like the look of, and give me more peace of mind

Maybe worth mentioning I would have to connect the individual cells of the PRO 3 as NZ law makes it impossible to ship it as a whole unit according to Jason- I dont have a spot welder, just a soldering iron.

Thanks in advance for any help/tips


#2

If your looking for hill climbing. 12S Dual Rear works great.

I’m riding 12S3P EPOWER Pack, Dual Rear 6355 230KV, Dual 12S TB ESC.

I climb 20-30% inclines and brakes work perfectly for stopping. If you use our 2.4ghz Mini Remote it’s 100% reliable with no drops. I’ve ridden well over 4k miles with no drops. Nunchuck will drop occasionally however some people have gotten it to work.


#3

Thank you for the recommendations! the remote is certainly right up my alley.
how much of a benefit is 12s over 10s when it comes to climbing and decending hills?


#4

@Luke if safety is your priority, the nunchuck is not a good choice. There are countless posts about trouble with them. My personal experience has been that they are not reliable enough for esk8. Modded GT2B or the “steez” remote you’re looking at are more reliable. You could also consider @torqueboards mini-remote.

The current opinion in the community (someone correct if I’m wrong) is that a geared setup will produce better torque than the current hub motor offerings. If big hills are a part of your commute, a geared setup will probably work better, although there are plenty of instances where hub motors can climb.

I’d suggest trying out the braking with your esk8 before you add the brakeboard setup into the mix. I’ve found the brakes I have to be completely reliable and strong enough for every situation. Unless you’re doing major downhill runs (and why would you do that on an esk8?) I think that the added mechanical breaks are superfluous. I’d do a single-rear or dual-rear setup, try it out, and if you need more braking power add them to the front.


#5

@Luke - 12S is a nice to have but not needed. You can climb hills on 10S.

Yeah, I’m not to fond of any bluetooth controller as they are suspetible to interference.


#6

The “steez” remote is also bluetooth.


#7

Thanks @chaka, good point! @Luke the most reliable remote options are GT2B or other RC remote that doesn’t use BT. A lot of folks seem happy with the Steez remote, but I think there’s no question that in terms of reliability RC remotes are currently the most reliable.


#8

Right now @FLATLINEcustoms GT2B enclosure looks like the best choice.


#9

Torque is a function of motor kv, gearing and current. Based on early reviews of Jacob’s hubz, they’ll have plenty of torque, but they will want to draw a lot of amps to do so. With the Space Cell pro 3, you’re fuse-limited to 40 amps, or 20 per motor. I believe the limit is set to protect the VESC/motor, but Chaka’s VESCs can handle up to 80 amps each iirc. Now 20 amps per Jacob-hub may still provide enough torque for your needs, but it’s a hard ceiling that you wouldn’t have with another battery pack provided the batteries are high-discharge.

If torque and cost are your biggest concerns you probably want to go with an outrunner setup. If stealth is really important, Jacob’s hubs with VESCs rated for high amps will probably do the trick but you might need a different battery system.


#10

Thank you for all this advice guys! it really helps, here’s where i’m at after reading this:

you guys seem confident in the GT2B mods, I’ll forget about the brakeboard trucks until a later date, I might stick some in the front if I lose connection or they become cheaper for 1 truck.

Is there a major difference between the 2.4 ghz controller by torque boards and the flatline customs mod shell+GT2B ? I like that the torque boards one is pre built and not completely unwieldy and while the flatline mod is smaller it would require assembly, something that I could get wrong (can I). can they both connect to the VESC easily enough?

Should I be considering tourqueboard’s car ECS at all? they looked simple to programme and suited for dual motors but no idea how many amps they can handle?

to draw more amps from a battery I do I need more cells in series (12s) or will 10 series with a different fuse limit work?
I’m concerned that getting any other lithium ion single charger battery (like the tourque boards 12s 3 p) into New Zealand apart from the space cell would be difficult because batteries can only be sent as single cells here.

If I understand right, enertion vescs can handle 50 amps continuous according to the website, chaka vescs can handle 80 amps continuous. Torqueboard vescs can handle 50 amps according to the diy website. Would the increase in amps from 50 to 80 be worth $70 per VESC (+shipping)?

I’m quite keen on Jacob’s hub motors, they seem to have enough torque, are compact, clean and well priced.
Basically I need to know what component is limiting the amps to 20 per wheel, the 10 series space cell, the fuse (can that be changed), or the dual VESCs.


#11

I checked http://www.ollinboardcompany.com/product/vedder-s-speed-controller and It says that his vesc can handle 50amps continuous like the other vescs.
would having 2 vescs mean that they can share the amps? so if a battery output 40/60 amps then would each vesc in a dual setup handle 20/30 amps each, sharing the current?


#12

With dual VESC’s, from what I understand, the limiting factor will be the battery (One of the reasons why I’m planning to eventually upgrade my space cell 3 to a space cell 4). The 18650 cells in Enertion’s batteries can handle 20A continuous so a 10s3p pack can output 3*20A = 60A continuous which would be 30A per VESC. Keep in mind though that even if you were to replace the 40A fuse in the battery with a 60A fuse, from memory, the BMS (battery management system) in the current space cells can handle 50A continuous so this is where your bottleneck would be. I think @onloop has mentioned that eventually the new space cells will come with a newer custom built BMS which may well be able to handle more current?


#13

Thanks for the input Michael, if I understand you correctly, the space cell pro 3 can output 20amps*3 parallels sets=60 amps
Dual vescs can handle this no problem as 60 amps/2=30 amps per vesc, less then their 50 amp limit.
The Fuse is limiting the current to 40 amps total and the bms is limiting the current to 50.
Can the bms and Fuse be changed to deliver 60 amps in total? Or Is this getting too experimental/unsafe?


#14

Based on my understanding that’s correct. The fuse is super easy to replace. You can certainly change the BMS as well but you’ll just have to confirm with someone here that has a bit more experience that the BMS you pick is suitable for our type of usage.


#15

http://www.batterysupports.com/36v-37v-42v-10s-60a-10x-36v-lithium-ion-lipolymer-battery-bms-p-267.html
Something like this?


#16

Seems a little over-the-top to take an integrated battery system like the space cell and start replacing fuses, BMS, etc just for a couple more peak amps. I mean, the fuse, sure you could get away with 50a instead of 40. But that BMS would take a some work to get wired up and you’d be junking a perfectly good BMS for 10 more peak amps which you might not even need.

I stand by the assertion that hubs need a battery system with a high discharge capacity if you’re 70 kg and want to fly up steep hills. The highest discharge capacity is in some of the fancier LiPo packs like the nanospecs. But then you’re dealing with the headache of custom enclosures, wiring & charging issues, possible battery failure and fires…Rc LiPo packs don’t quite fit your “safety first” requirement.

Maybe try out the space cell 3 with the hubs and then look at yanking the 40a fuse if the torque isn’t there. Worst case, you might have to get a rolling start to make it up the steeper hills. That setup should fly once you get rolling.


#17

Was just discussing with Michael what a waste of an integrated bms this would be. I might wait to see if @onloop has a pro 3 which incorporates a bms with a higher output In the pipeline. I’m more than happy to give the board a rolling start if that’s what is holding me back.


#18

@Luke based on your main goal ( torque) I think you should go with a geared setup with outrunners. Unless you’re adding a new priority, which is that you want hubmotors for the aesthetics. You could start with a single out runner motor and a single vesc and test it out in your area and on your commute. If it isn’t enough, you can add another.

I think you’ll be surprised by how much power a single motor can deliver. That’s what I use, and I’ve got more speed and torque than I can handle! I actually cap the speed of my build through an RPM limit, because I don’t want to go faster than 22mph as a top speed. I can climb any hill I’ve come across, and I use 8S.


#19

I appreciate your opinion. I will Be trying out Michael’s single 6473 r spec motor up my ~18% gradient Hill this weekend, I told it’ll give me a good idea how much torque I would need. I was told that dual motors are useful for braking because of traction however, I’ll be keeping that in mind


#20

just an update and a couple further questions.
I have purchased Jacob’s hub Motors (wheels&trucks) and a an enertion style wireless receiver in @Jack’s group buy.
I wanted to use two enertion vescs and connect these to a space cell.
@EnertionSupport told me that their vescs dont come with a Canbus.
Is this wire appropriate to use :

Also do I need to buy a Y connector to connect two vescs to a single xt-60 plug ?
Thanks