Oh, ok. Are you new to the forum? If so, welcome!
Yes, I’ve been lurking for a few weeks now.
Still not really used to the quoting and replying-functions.
Hey “mate”. Thanks for elaborating.
I’m not going to nit pick your post and choice selection of quotes of our correspondence, although I will just say that they’re a pretty disingenuous selection and far from an accurate summary, so for anyone interested in a more comprehensive summary, read the first post.
As for your accusations of threatening and swearing at your staff, yes, I said “bullshit”. Big whoop. My intention was not aggression to your staff, I was merely describing your organization’s level of customer service. As to my theoretical “threats”, that’s a matter of perception, but I can see how this is a convenient place to go to for you because it means you can point fingers and not have to take responsibility for your poor service.
Anyway, we’ve had our argument and there is no point in rehashing it on here. Bad service is bad service. Simple as that. I’ve moved on and I just thought people should know about the lengths you’re not willing to go to to help your customers.
The actual problems here are:
1. You were not willing to make a very simple plan to help your customer.
2. When I offered to comply with your instruction for putting through a second order, you wouldn’t allow me to pay the same price as the first 3 items.
3. Your accounting system is inefficient.
4. Your customer service leaves much to be desired. It’s slow and unhelpful.
Out of interest, I wonder how much money we both spent on emails back and forth, when this could very easily have been sorted out after my first request? Probably the cost of a VESC. Food for thought.
Peace out and good luck with your future ventures.
Hey mate, I’m not passing judgement on the issue here, I suspect it is a little column A, a little column be when it comes to the fault for the issue blowing up here. But I do want to argue something that seems to pop up frequently- and that is the notion that 'the customer is always right".
This is a notion which makes us feel empowered as consumers, but it is, to a large degree, a fallacy. Why? Because if this was the case, then this would imply business existed solely for the purpose of satisfying the customer, and it isn’t. It also exists to pay wages, grow, and make profit. So really, it exists for the both the customer, and also it’s own reasons.
The more accurate saying for business is “There are some customers you don’t want to do business with”. This is when it isn’t financially viable for a business to do business with a certain client, and some clients cost more to deal with than it is worth in return. Business is fundamentally an exchange of value between two parties; the business exchanges goods and the customer exchanges cash, and a relationship builds based on joint value creation.
The adage the ‘customer is always right’ suggests that the only value that needs to be created is for the customer. Which is wrong.
What you might be seeing here is a case where @onloop is making a choice about value creation- it is simply makes more sense for him to service the next set of customers than to invest the same finite time trying to satisfy @makepeace et al 100%, especially when @onloop was not in control of the decisions the customer chose to make all by himself.
You can argue the merits of that in terms of reputation, building customer loyalty via reciprocity etc, but ultimately he runs a business and is making his choices based on what he believes is best for him and his business (and he is probably prioritising short term gains over long term effects because he has no choice as a home business with bugger all capital).
In terms of deciding which customers are worth doing business with and investing the extra mile in, I suspect most the growing businesses engaged on this forum find that the DIY scene is actually pretty fickle. Many (of course not all) openly shop on price alone, despite the pitfalls in doing that, and show almost zero brand loyalty by openly supporting cheaper clones or direct-from-factory suppliers, and trying to pressure price reductions out of small business with group buys and bulk orders with non-DIY scene suppliers. I find that ironic, especially when there is such a strong expectation of superior customer-support, but almost no brand loyalty in return. The title and intention behind this thread is a classic example of that.
I think @onloop could improve his messaging and demeanour with customers, but I also feel almost every issue is out of his control. If he wasn’t growing 1000 odd % in 3 months you could be assured he would be working 24/7 to solve dicky little problems like the one in this thread, because he would have no choice. But he does have choice (like @makepeace does) and it seems he is prioritising effort where it makes the most sense right now.
And if anyone thinks superior customer service comes for free- it doesn’t. You pay for it because it costs time and man hours and those costs get passed back in price rises. The blokes going after the DIY market share are always looking to reduce costs because DIY’s are largely driven by a desire to build boards at home as cheaply as possible. Cheaper prices is offset with an expectation you can order yourself without screwing up, you can determine what you want/ need yourself, and can build/ self-help yourself. It all goes to custard when you want all of that flexibility and support, plus superior quality products and the cheapest prices- it’s a mutually exclusive situation and something will give.
Completely agree with you here. It’s entirely his decision as to whether or not customers are worth his business, as it is mine vice versa. He must just understand and own that if he chooses not to provide a very basic level of service that people are going to talk about it.
I stand nothing to lose as I can just go somewhere else. His business is not a unicorn. And I certainly don’t want to do business with someone who doesn’t want to do business with me.
Dear Mr Makepeace, I have provided a refund for your order of the 3x VESC priced at the sale price of $99ea = Approx $300USD?
Now you can go buy the VESC for a much higher price wherever you like…
You could nearly buy two from Chaka with that refund, However shipping to South Africa will be a killer… Or Maybe some from Maytech, they will charge shipping too, good luck.
@onloop yes, I noticed. Thanks for cancelling my order and refunding without consulting me about it. Really mature and professional way to deal with this situation. Your customer complains about your customer service and you cancel their order.
Once again, you’ve outdone yourself on the customer service front.
I’m just glad I never have to deal with your organisation again and I’ll be glad to give my business to someone who actually wants it.
Best of luck to you Mr Potter.
As a gesture of goodwill, If you do want to order again, be sure to select the correct qty, I will process a refund making the unit price equivalent to the sale price.
Okay, now we’re getting somewhere. Thanks for the gesture.
I’m not unreasonable and I don’t hold a grudge so if you’re willing to make these reparations then I will be happy to continue with the order.
I’ll PM you and see if we can make a plan.
This is a true test of your consumer morals… You get the chance to decide who to buy from:
- Go with the lowest price best deal?.. (from the supplier you claim that has bad service)
- Stick to your guns and pay more?
- Or risk buying a dodgy Chinese VESC & still paying more?
Also, please bear in mind this was the option we originally gave you… but you chose to complain instead of comply…
Not really. I’m always willing to give someone a chance. As it stands I believe the customer experience I’ve had with you has been bad. You have the opportunity to change that impression. You seem to be willing to try to fix that now, so I’ll give that a chance.
Also, I didn’t complain, I merely asked if we could make another plan and made a suggestion as refunding the whole amount and doing a whole new transaction is more expensive and time consuming. In the process, you upped the price and were then unwilling to make a plan from there on.
You are willing to choose price over perceived service levels, That thought process is in line with most consumer case studies…
If i retract my offer of matching the original sales price you will shop elsewhere until you find the next lowest price. So in fact, you are proof that service doesn’t actually matter. You & others like you are therefore the cause of the bad service.
You are an oxymoron, Complain that service isn’t good enough but never actually willing to pay for it. So in fact, i gave you everything you wanted in the first place you just are not aware of it.
I hope readers of this thread can now better understand the challenges faced by small business…
Why did you cancel the order? That seems a bit over the top. I don’t want to start an argument with this post. Good luck with your business.
Nooooooooo. Not at all. I think you’re misunderstanding this completely. Think about it a bit.
But anyway if this is you playing childish psychological games trying to tell me what I am or not, then you can have it. Don’t you have so much work to do?
I’m done with this argument. I’m not going to defend myself against your ludicrous claims. You’re gaslighting.
Either we’re going to make a plan here or we’re not. That’s up to you from here on.
it’s in our terms & conditions, we are permitted to choose who we do business with.
ALSO: if you didn’t read thoroughly enough, it’s the only way to change an order. Cancel & re-order.
You’re being a bit childish and unprofessional now. Your VESC platinum includes product support, which is an additional paid for service, not customer service. That is not what this thread is about. This thread is about customer service and how a business interacts with it’s customers.
If my VESC breaks, that’s my problem and I factor that into my risk of buying the product. I don’t want product support.
As above, you determine the way forward here. I’ll await your response to my PM.
This convo should of been private