I’m in that 1% too - wanting to build the stickies ESK8 for surfing on pavement.
All my employees are DH rippers (one ending ranked #2 for IDF Junior Worlds 2016). Several of our customers are DH and Freeride rippers too. Utah has some amazing talent.
That said, the amount of business DH and Freeride represents at our shop is less than 10% these days.
Just making sure no one is over estimating the market for what they want to make, including myself.
Word. And if built right, race capable boards can make the best cruisers. All that power just waiting for when you want it. But maybe you don’t want it right this minute. OR maybe you want to set a new slurpee run record right fucking now because fuck it.
Wide wheels can be great if you allow them to deform to contact the ground. The height and width of the hub is a factor. Note that I’ve made a 83mm tall x 78mm wide wheel with a small core, a medium core, a large core, and a double-large core, so I can tell how much difference a hub makes. Virtually EVERY race wheel is wide compared to a freeride wheel, park wheel, ditch wheel, trick (street/freestyle) wheel, pool wheel, cruiser wheel, plastic board wheel …
So “wide” can be great if you know what to do with the width. If you have a lot of urethane depth on a wheel that is too narrow, it is HORRIBLE. I don’t think that it will be news to anyone here that an inline wheel totally sucks as a skateboard wheel. And when a wheel is that narrow, adding urethane depth makes it even worse. The urethane bends (tacos) when any sideloads are put on the wheel. And even in a straight line there isn’t “reduced rolling resistance”.
My point is that you have to intelligently combine hub shapes and sizes with wheel shapes and sizes, and also consider the durometer of the wheel and the characteristics of the urethane (grippy or drifty).
I decided to follow this with a picture of some of the wide wheels that I was talking about. Note that the wheel design AND hub being used evolved over time as we were learning more and more about what worked and what didn’t. All of the “theory” about how a wheel will perform isn’t nearly as valuable as building the damn things, bolting them onto your board, and then being realistic about what you’re experiencing. All of the below reference wheels are 83mm in diameter. From top left to bottom right:
Wide can be good, but you need to know how to couple it with the proper urethane depth, lip flex, hub flex, contact patch, urethane types, durometer … It’s like what they say about making omelettes - you’re going to have to break some eggs!
Judging by how very dark and impossible it is to see inside, I’d have to guess that we’re really looking at here is a very narrow section (or sections) of an otherwise very thin band of urethane that is a little deeper in spots to prevent it from flying off the hub.
Perhaps you could “enlighten” the image and/or enlighten the viewers as to how much of that thin band of urethane is actually 19.59mm deep? The urethane band is going to be very thin for most all of the motor width, but it would go deeper at the end(s) for a small fraction of the hub motor width for purposes of fastening it in place with end caps.
PLENTY!
Sooner or later, both of these boards will need to corner … life is never a smooth straight road for very long. No one riding the DH board or the electric skateboard wants a wheel that feels like shit. It’s completely avoidable in both cases.
Let’s not pretend that both riders don’t want performance. They want performance at speed whether that is simply to be comfortable on a commute or a ride in the park, or comfortable as in having confidence when going into a hairpin turn in a race. There is simply no upside to having a harsh-feeling vibration-inducing wheel that slips and skitters on imperfections in the road. None. Even on the smoothest skateboard wheels we get enough of a feel for the road. There is no downside to smoothness, traction and control. None. And there’s no downside to speed when you can control it and/or have brakes. None.
No one here is pretending that downhill is the same exact thing as electric skateboarding. But the performance requirements are nearly identical. When I’m going into a turn at high speed on an electric skateboard do I suddenly care that a motor got me up to speed instead of gravity, as if that mattered? Hell no! You care about having what it takes to negotiate the turn. Stability, traction, control, smoothness … nothing janky.
There are some of downhill race course that require a lot of braking and pre-drifting is a popular and effective way to scrub off speed. On those course bigger/wider hubs are used to provide a more uniform and controlled slide. Less urethane than you’d find when the course is faster but less technical. On hills where speed and traction is more important than controlled drifting, smaller core are used which of course gives you MORE urethane. A 75mm wheel with a 25mm hub gives you 25mm of urethane depth. That’s a lot of urethane on a (relatively) small wheel. But you can use a small wheel because races tend to be held on smooth roads.
I really don’t understand people trying to argue that electric skateboarders DON’T want or DON’T need wheels that perform well. WTF? Or that people want fewer options. WTF? Really? One rattley wheel size one way? One gear ratio? One wheel width? One duro? One formula?
I thought that we were here to make better boards, not better sales pitches to unsuspecting customers.
Think you’re taking my comments a bit too literal Chris, and if you read some of my posts you’ll see that you’re preaching to the choir as it relates the ride quality, and what’s best for electric skateboards wheel wise.
I’m a dealer of both Boosted and Inboard because I feel they both have their place.
Personally, I will never choose a Hub Motor for many of the reasons you mention.
That said, my last sale was an Inboard to a customer who demoed both the Inboard M1 and the Boosted V2. This customer had a friend with a Boosted V1 that she had already ridden many times. The customer called before coming in, specifically asking about the Inboard M1. The customers biggest concern was which board would handle moisture better and which board was less maintenance. And since the board was headed away to college she would need to deal with belt replacements on her own. Besides that, she liked the stiffer M1 for her own reasons. She chose the Inboard after me making very clear the pros and cons of both.
Seems like you might be the type of person that crams what you feel is best on someone, maybe? I’m the type of person that presents all the information and lets someone choose what they feel is best for themselves.
Not once has Chris said anybody has to buy his wheels. None of us have. Giving valid reasons as to why someone might want to consider it isn’t bad info in any way. You sell two boards that aren’t that good and you allow people to choose one of those…bravo? Salesman of the year? Nope!
Totally agree, many people buying compete boards as an appliance don’t care much about ride quality or high speed cornering grip. While enthusiasts like the DIY community care about every tiny detail of feel and performance.
Though anyone going over 20mph really should care about cornering grip, does not mean they will or know what is good and what is not.
Some of that statistic sounds oddly…familiar 
Didn’t say that he did, and definitely didn’t mean to imply it.
100% agree.
I’ve always liked Loaded products for carving (Boosted), but you’re entitled to your opinion.
What do you suggest for a college girl getting to class?
30lb Carbon GT?
30lb Raptor 2?
Build her own?
I would suggest sharing more knowledge with your customers. But first you’d have to do some more research yourself if you think the carbon gt and raptor are 30lbs…But I get it, you just want to sell what’s in your shop even though there are way better boards elsewhere for everyone.
You couldn’t be more wrong about me if you tried. My mantra from day one has been:
The evidence to support this claim is the INSANE number of wheel, hub, and urethane combos that I have personally designed, tested, and produced. The insane number of hangers that I have produced (raked, rakeless, fixed pivot Fyre, 100mm to 200mm inclusive at 5mm increments, cast, CNC machined, RKP, TKP, Dual, etc.) The insane number of baseplates that I have produced (0° to 60° inclusive at 5° increments for the the CNC Liquid and Fyre Trucks and 7 more for the cast Attacks. The insane number of pool, park, street, ditch, downhill, slalom, freeride, mini, cruiser, tech-slide, and dance decks that I’ve produced.
To suggest that I make ONE thing and try to cram that on someone who doesn’t know any better is an asinine accusation. You obviously don’t know me and/or prefer to ignore evidence to make a point. I don’t give rat’s ass about making money as long as I can keep the doors open and the lights on and continue to develop great skateboard products. I’ve been putting function first since 1974 and will do so til the day I die.
As I’ve said here before, hub motors are not going away any time soon. There’s nothing evil or wrong about them. They represent one of many ways to skin a cat. Right now, I don’t want buy them or sell them but it’s totally fine if others do. If anything they will help people realize how nice a real skateboard wheel can feel and perform. You asked the question, “What exactly is the relationship between comparing skateboard wheels being pulled down windy mountain roads by gravity, and skateboard wheels being powered by motors in a straight line?”
I answered the question. You’re welcome.
I 100% apologize. Some misplaced emotion and poor choices of words / context on my part.
When you say:
I’m not arguing that they don’t.
I’m suggesting that “craming” wheel performance on someone that wants hubs motors for other reasons besides wheel performance isn’t the answer. Informing them of the options and letting them choose is a better way IMO.
15mm of thane depth is a horrible idea for many of us that know better, especially with a massive steel core in it. I’ve enjoyed many sets of Gumballs and Big Zigs, and that’s the ride quality many of us want to replicate on our ESK8s. Just some people don’t care as much, even when they’ve tried both (my Inboard sale example). Some may eventually figure it out. Others will never use an ESK8 in a way where wheel performance matters much to them.
Come on Chris, we all know you are here primarily in an effort to prop-up your diminishing sales as the downhill skateboard market, that lined your pockets with cash at the start of this decade, slowly dies! Based on what wheels are being used by the pros it seems your oversized product line up is slightly out of favor in that market anyway.
On that note, where on earth do we need to go to buy the large diameter products you are talking up? - it seems most of the big online stores Muirskate - Daddies - [WarehouseSkateboards] (https://www.warehouseskateboards.com/skateboard-wheels#class=1W&pg=1&brand=AEL|) - Tactics - don’t sell big wheels, 83mm & above, are they just not popular enough to be kept in stock? why is that?
Considering the dwindling supporter & competitor numbers, my guess is that the IDF has just a few years left before it’s not viable and only a fool would ignore those signs, your no fool Chris. Explains your increased presence here.
Fortunately, there is a new market ripe for abec11 insemination, A rapidly growing ESK8 market that just happens to love your wheels primarily due to the fact that your core is perfect for attaching a pulley, your saving grace, and last but not least because they are fucking good wheels, Chris.
Yes, You resell very good products, bravo!
However, in your misguided attempt to further grow your loyal fan base of esk8ers & sway opinions towards your clearly superior products, whilst simultaneously using back-hand rhetoric & expertisims to smack down other popular & rapidly emerging trends, such as hub motors, I feel you have become lost in a flowing sea of your secret urethane formulas & soft sales pitches…
Chris, Your sales pitch & reality are slightly misaligned right now!
FACT: We have already proven that the fastest wheel don’t have the most urethane. Capisce!
ALSO: Your own customers testimonials on your own website contradict your “Expert Advice” proclaiming esk8 riders must have gargantuan amounts of urethane otherwise they will be doomed / unhappy / unsatisfied / uncomfortable / unaccepted / etc / etc…
You say: “15.5mm FEELS HARSH LIMITED APPEAL”
Your Website & Your Customers say: “15.5mm YOU DON’T FEEL THE CRACKS”
We all love you Chris, you are a true pioneer… please just take a breath and relax before you dig too deep… I am sure plenty of folks will buy your products and love them… I always recommend them myself…
Proof:
P.S. If anyone wants to buy 97mm flywheels go >here<
Yep - I’m way off on the GT weight. So a 17lb Carbon GT is what a timid college student should get to class on, and not have to maintain?
I do want to sell the things I stock - I feel we offer great products. Many of our customers see and learn about DIY products when I’m making a mess at the shop. Some products from vendors here and others I’m working on for myself. I’ve been selling skateboards / longboards for over 30 years and have never been as excited as I am now (because of ESK8). I’d like to think that rubs off on some of our customers.
Looking forward to offering more ESK8 products in the future… maybe even some of our own.
Yes. Build her own. She’s going to college, so:
@onloop I think the only reason that @ChrisChaput’s sales are going down isn’t the quality of the wheel (because everybody loves it) but the color of the wheel. That weird limy green with the orange hub is ugly as f*ck, and it’s led other people to look for better options aesthetically.
@chrischaput between myself and my friends, we own a 3 pairs of your wheels. We all love them for cruising and carving on regular boards in the suburbs of SF. But there is no way in hell that I’m going to put them on an electric board because they just ruin the look! I know that you are always after ride quality, and ride quality is what most customers should be concerned about, however the truth is that some customers like myself are equally concerned about the look of the board. As a seller, you have the job of catering to the mass markets, and the mass markets are demanding something that both looks good and performs well. I think that if you were to produce a lineup that had better looking wheels in the first place with the same quality urethane that the serious riders love, then it would be a win-win for everyone. I know you probably aren’t going to take this into too much consideration as you’ve already started producing your new lineup but here are my suggestions for a better looking wheel:
If only world could be this good.
@ChrisChaput next step would be wheels than can handle light rain and slippery roads better, maybe something like sharkwheels design, not sure if this is ever going to work but there are people like me that want to ride everytime but hate pneumatics.
