First Build // Twin SK3 6354 -260 KV // Trampa Urban Carver

ESK8 Builds
, , ,
1

Hello,

I want to build on Trampa deck and trucks for two reasons. First i needed a deck, that doesnt flex much, since i am heavy (about 110 kg/ 240 pounds). Secondly, those trucks can have 7 inch wheels, but also i can just put some normal 97 inch hard wheels. I think about ordering 97 mm Abec Flywheels. And also those big wheels will help me ride smoother, since the path and road’s , where i leave are a little bumby, not that smoth, and also some debries like little twigs and small rocks. And i dont wat to land on my face, when i will be stooped by this debrie riding 30 km/h.

OK so i have complete board. But no electronics.

The twin motor mount i will be getting from @Idea He will provide me with full motor mount and pulleys for wheels with belt, nuts and everything. I am really gratefull, since he helped me alot, ansering my first questions, since i am new to electric builds.

The Motor’s i would like to be SK3 6354- 260 kV from Hobbyking ofc.

The terrain i want to ride is not really steep, maybe few inclines 2-4% max, but very few. I am more about speed, but mainly i need a range of about (15-16 km) 9-10 miles. That would be enough. And top speed of about 35 km/h, (21 mp/h).

So my main question is, is the 2x3s( 6S) 8000- mah Lipoly would be enough. With two 150 A 6 scar ESC.

On 7 inch wheels (177 mm), pulleys: 15/62 T.

Or i need some 8S setup.

I did a calculations on http://calc.esk8.it. And top speed should be around that 37 km/h, (weighted), but with the motor efficency of 80%.

About range, i know, the 7 inch wheels will get more friction, than hard 97 mm. Also i am heavy, and i will be using twin motor setup, So more power consumption.

So i am really worreid, since this is my first build, and i want it to be budget build (i have around 400 euro for all electronics, batteries, wires, including charger)(exclude,a remote i have it already) and i know from this forum, that 8s setup is much pricier, and there are not many 8 s esc’s there, and i am too cheap fro VESC’s, and least for now.

I think i know enough to make electronics right,(for 6S setup at least), except for voltage indicator, i dont know where to solder it.

So, i will be ok with 6s 8000 mah, twin motor setup, or i need 8s for the range and speed i need (35 km/h, 15 km range. If so, are there any good 8s ESC’s, that are not as pricey as vesc’s.

Any help, and comments will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

2

Dear, I am selling some 6s parts. Maybe youre interested in this? I have also this Program card for the x beast new in bag.

3

Thanks for the proposition. Tho i am not exactly sure if i want 6s setup, if it will be sufficent for my range and speed needs. Also i am building two boards, for me and my brother, so i need every part x2.

4

I looks a little bit like my story… I am also building 2 board, one for me and one for my brother. First i thought to go for 6s but i had ordered the vesc and i must go for a low current. Higher voltage= lower current… So i go for a 10s build…

5

On a Trampa eMTB a Car ESC could be better than a VESC as the VESC can’t really handle high currents. You could go for a FOCBOX (slightly better current capabilities) or VESC6.

You have to keep in mind though that basically every other ESC will be LOUD compared to a VESC when braking and accelerating.

Speed can always be adjusted via gearing and motor kv and range is only dependent on the total energy in your pack. You could hook up several lipos in parallel to increase range.

1 Like
6

Thanks for advise. The only problem with VESC/FOCBOX isn’t very cheap. I mean, 2x 150A car esc cost about 140 euro, and thats a starting prize for one VESC, and i saw FOCBOX VESC for 200 dollars. For my first electric sk8, is a little too much for start, since i have to build two boards, for me and my brother. I am not sure about esc yet, tho i considering to get 10 or 8S 10000 mah battery pack with 18650 cells. From what i have learned, they are safer, and with addition of BMS, i dont have to deal with this balance port " mumbo jumbo" charging. This will also shirk the list of cables and connectors i need.

I think i wil get the good battery first, and then i will consider a matching esc for it.

7

There is a lot of confusion in your post:

  1. 200dollars for a FOCBOX is because that are Australian Dollars - in euros it would be ~140€ I think.
  2. 10 or 8S will increase your price significantly as you’ll need a BMS, new (much more expensive compared to Car) ESCs so it seems like not really an option in your case
  3. You don’t have to use 18650 cells to use them with a BMS - Lipos can be charged with a BMS just as well. Actually with quality 18650 cells you don’t necessarily have to have a BMS - I charge my 10S pack without a BMS straight with a Laptop style charger

For a cheap entry level build a 6S system is the most efficient way you can go. But be careful that when you set your system up for a specific voltage (to get desired speed) it is hard to change afterwards. Going from 6S to 10S will require either new gearing (and thus maybe also belt) or different motor kv.

8

If you are on budget a 6s dual with car ESCs is a good way to start. Keep in mind like @Maxid told you, that an upgrade from there is a bit difficult, cause you can´t use lot´s of components for bigger systems.

So if you go the 6s route: X car beasts are nice Try to get 6374 motors with about 245 kv (two smaller 6355 will probably overheat with your weight and 6s) A 6s 8000mah will get you around 6-8 km far, maybe a bit more, but you will consume much more juice with your weight and setup. So how about getting 4x 3s 8000mah, which sould bring you at least 15 km.

1 Like
9

yes, i am a little confused. i mean i am considering my options. 6s 8000 or 16000 mah, is a budget option, which i feel fine, as long as i get 11-12 km minimal range from it. As @TarzanHBK said, i need 4x 3s 8000 to get 16000 mah But i am also considerign to extend the build for 2 months, so i could get more money, and go with a 8S 10.000 mah 25 C discharge rate battery, also 8S mean higher voltage, and as i read on this forum, this should give me more range?

But if i would go for 8S setup i need pricier esc’s, i dont know maybe some chinease double 120 A esc from Aliexpress.

So what would be the best twin Motor(s) for 8S setup and my fat ass? :stuck_out_tongue:

10

The thing is, you could go and find some cheap 8S ESC for probably $65 to $75 (without shipping). Or, you could go for the VESC for $100 from DIY Electric Skateboard, and be so much happier. Trust me, VESCs are worth the extra money! I have tried someone’s esk8 with a car ESC, and yes it is just as fast, but the riding experience was terrible! It was loud, and power delivery was not nearly as smooth. If there’s one thing not to cheap out on, I believe it is your speed controller. I went with the VESC for my first build, and I could not have been happier.

1 Like
11

Do the math yourself:

83.7V10Ah = 296 Wh 63.716Ah = 355.2 Wh <-- this will give you more range as there is more energy in your pack. Sure the higher voltage will increase efficiency but not by that much (in the end your 6S system would have 20% more energy)

If you go for 8S there is nothing stopping you from going to 10S straight away. In my opinion the jump from 6S to just 8S is not worth it. If you want something better than 6S then go for 10S or even 12S - then you will at least benefit from the efficiency increase and less current draw.

Maybe build just one 6S board first and see if you actually like it. That way you don’t shell out too much and get a feel for what you want. Building a second one is easy then.

3 Likes
12

OK, Time to refresh this post. It took me alot of time (and soldering :smile:), but i managed to make two boards:

The specs are: 2x Turnigy Outrunner 245 kV 6364 brushless motor 2x TB 4.12 VESC (i waited like a month to deliver to eu-Poland) 2x Turnigy Multistar 4S, 16000 mah 10C Lipo batteries (total 16 Ah, 8S, 33,6 V)
Alien Power remote (battery last for many rides, never had any problem with signal, nice trigger, insted of thumb thing)

Motor’s mount, custom made by this forum user, who also happens to live in my country. Courtesy to Tom @Idea. He made me two pairs of this awesome motor mounts, for Trampa Urban Carver, and it was alot cheaper than for example trampa mounts.

Skateboard i mean mountainboard :smile: is Trampa Urban Carver (i wanted something with big wheels, and strong for my fat ass :wink: )

I also used BMS for those lipos, it’s 80A discharge, 10 A charge 8-20S BMS… I connected 8S and it’s working balancing cells really nicely. (yes, i checked with mulimeter :smile: )

20170714_142723.jpg4160×2340 2.79 MB

I bought BMS and charger from this store, which sells electric components for e-bikes in Poland :smile:

I tried to find some shop, that could make me a battery with those Li-Ion 18650 cells, but i would have to wait long time. I will probably get 10S battery with li-Ion cells in next summer season, but for now i am happy with my 8S, 33.6V setup.

I also used two boxes, one is for battery, and second on the back is for 2x VESC and reciver for remote. Those are some cheap, scuba underwater, cases: VESC box battery box

Next post will be some pictures with descriptions…

13

OK, time for some beautifull diagram, with battery BMS setup.

This is schematic for balance cable connections for those multistar batteries (sorry i CBA to do it on PC :smile: ), maybe it will help someone (the darker red color, are actually black wires, tho after scanning it looks like darker red) :

This is a schematic of cable connections, i used XT 90 plugs, XT90-S Loop key, Voltmeter LCD to see how much charge i have, also XLR Port for charging.

This is " Real Life :smile: connection schematic, lied on the table the charging port is wrong i changed it later

This is finished battery box 'es:

Batteries are attached to the bottom of the box with thick double sticky velcro straps, and they are both secured and cushioned by it.

14

For VESC’s i used another small box, i made some vent holes, and cable holes, and i attached it to the 2 bolt,s of the rear trucks. i swapped standard truck screws, for longer ones, drilled some holes in a box, and screw the box with two nuts from inside the box. i used some velcro to slighly attach vesc’s to the wall of the box, and reciver cube to the floor of the box. There is a double XT 90 plug inside so i could power two vescs with one cable going from the battery. ANd ofc two vesc are connected via CANbus cable.

20170806_191015.jpg4160×2340 2.59 MB
20170806_191004.jpg4160×2340 2.54 MB

i can’t provide picture of my vesc values but i can write them down:

I use 2x vesc, each vesc is setuped with those values:

Current Limits:

Motor max: 70 Motor min: -40 Batt max: 40 (my bms can do 80A, but i have 2 vesc, so 40A for each) Bat min: -5 (my bms can hadle 10 charge, so divide by two, 5A for each vesc, thats why -5)

Other Limits: Min and Max input i left alone, so they are min 8Volt, and max 50Volt Battery cutoff start: 27,20 Volt Battery cutoff end: 26,80 Volt ( i do not go so low ofc, but i set those values so the vesc wont cut it, in case of voltage sag)

Ofc, i did motor detection on both vescs, for both motors, and set the slave vesc number to 1.

On master vesc, i setup remote to App, and calibrated it a little, so i have 100 % range on trigger.

And ofc, "brake with no reverse).

Since i coudn’t set the bat min much higher, brake power is ok, but for lower speed’s. Sometimes when i go faster, brakeing is really slow, sometimes its better, i cant get why is that.

Overall i am happy with this vesc’s setup, and it’s working ok.

On those 7 inch, (177 mm), and my fat ass 120 kg, max speed i dared to go was 46 km/h, but i could go even faster, so it can easily go 50 km/h, but it’s scary… The range, i dont really know. i made about 11 km in one run., and it took the battery from 33,6v fully charged, to about 31,4 Volt. And battery can easilly and safelly go to 28,5 V, so i used about 40%. So i think the range is really good, about 18 km, at least with my fat ass, and pneumatic wheels. ofc battery is 16 Ah, so it alot, about 473 Wh.

21198407_1301485639973867_438355897_o.jpg1152×2048 106 KB

I have blue dampas on the springs in tramap trucks, and there is some wobble, but not that much.

15

I used a wide velcro double sticky strap, to “glue” the battery box in the middle of the board, and secure it with the tightening strap, and it’s holds really good, and i can always, take off battrey box in case of change or transport.

The gering is 62T/15T, so 62 teeath on wheel kog, and 15T on motor pulley. the belts are htd 375, 15mmm, 5M Those pulleys and belts are also from Tom @Idea.

I have two chargers.

One is a dedicated 4,5 A, 33,6V auto charged for BMS, with XLR plug. The second one is a switching lab power supply, its 3A max, and range from 1-60V.

With the 4,5 A dedicated charger, i charge about 60% of battery in about 2,5 hours, so its ok.

I used some black mesh, to protect the motor cables, and a battery/vesc cable.

All and all, the maitenance is easy, Maybe it could look better, but for me functionality> looks.

I am happy with it. I practicaly just assembled it from components. Only real problem for me was to learn how to solder wires, so i could make the battery box.

It took alot of time, but it holds together, mer and my brother rider about 150 km, total on it.

There was some problems, hehe :slight_smile::

-one, when i was approuching the intersection, i went for the sidewalk, and vibrations, disconnected xt90 from vesc’s, so i was with no brakes, luckly i was fast enough to remove leg from binding and brake with my foot sliding on concrete.

Other time, the screw, holding motor mount to trucks came loose, and blocked beetween the wheels pulley and trucks, luckly i was going slow. From that accident i used thread lock on all metal screws.

Ok time for some pictures:

2 Likes
16

I added front and back lights to the board, so i can ride it in dark. Those are some cheap bike lights. I describbed the process here.

DSC02811.JPG4243×2828 2.98 MB
.

DSC02813.JPG4243×2828 2.77 MB

1 Like
17

20170919_165120.jpg2942×2206 2.43 MB

20170919_165823.jpg2942×2206 1.49 MB

20170919_165706.jpg2942×2206 1.99 MB

20170919_165823.jpg2942×2206 1.49 MB

20170919_165724.jpg2942×2206 1.89 MB

20170919_165605.jpg2942×2206 2.58 MB

20170919_165452.jpg2942×2206 2.44 MB

1 Like