Carvon's intellectual property

all that and worst of all, if you don’t defend every patent infringement the patent becomes all but unless

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I have some basic experience with patents for novel ideas. For example, the staticool technology used in Raptor 2 is a novel idea and we have global patent pending.

Unfortunately, i don’t think carvon invented anything new, so they cannot patent it. Attaching a motor to a wheel directly is not a new idea. They could certainly try though, it would need to be in a very specific use category such as Skateboard with very specific definitions. However, it might not be worth it, as patents that are extremely specific are inherently easy to bypass on technicalities… also the fees for applying are substantial if the protection is minimal or nonexistent.

So very unlikely they will get approval or on slim chance they do they might end up with very watered down coverage which is impossible to enforce.

At best they can apply for a registered design. Which in USA may also be called a design patent. This is different from an invention patent. A registered Design will help them stop carbon copy products but is not a very strong form of protection and easily bypassed by competitors with subtle changes to the visual aspects of the Design. Like additional screws or teeth.

Basically, anyone can make a similar drive system as carvon and there is nothing they can do about it.

They should spend money on R&D, focus on motor performance and technical innovation to differentiate from competition. Much better investment.

Anyway. I’m not an expert, this is just my understanding of the process.

@guyguy is probably most knowledgeable.

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Didn’t you get your cooling idea from the users here on this forum. Something about transmitting heat through an aluminum mount into the hanger. Not sure you will be able to enforce any patent regarding the use of a truck hangar as a heat sink since there was already a precedence among the public. It would be like patenting rocks for throwing.

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Its just marketing to sell some raptors:p

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A patent is only as strong as your ability to enforce it.

I think we’re all infringing this patent:

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precedence…? none.

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yup, innovation is a great marketing tool.

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It’s certainly not a new idea. Hummie and I had been talking about how the hanger acts as a heat sink back on his first hub motors almost 2 years ago. While we never made an effort to increase surfaces area for better cooling like the raptor 2, I’m not sure your gaining much from those like fins on the hanger anyways. I think for any hub/direct drive motor, the truck acts like a heat sink. Interestingly enough though, the stator, since insulated, is not the best way to transfer heat to the truck (which is what basically all motors do right now). This is the area we are researching now, and that we hope to implement in a future version for even better cooling (better connection between the copper in the motor and the truck for heat transferring).

Are you saying that because other people are aware of heat in their skateboard trucks my patent is not enforceable?

Similar to saying; “the sun generates heat & it is observable by all, so Willis Carrier’s patent on the air conditioning unit is not enforceable”

That’s not really how patents work.

If you are wondering the origin of this thought process… I started studying heat transfer when testing hub motors way back in 2015. (check publish date in instagram)

Here is a render of the Raptor 2 trucks from 2015 (minus the fins due to my patent application plans)

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With a smart, creative patent attorney I’m sure Carvon could find something novel to patent here. I think the business question is more interesting personally, which onloop mentions. You have limited resources so you have to weigh the risks of your competitors overtaking you by copying you without the burden of R&D costs, the size of your market, how much you trust your employees (particularly your manufacturers, engineers and scientists), your investment in creating the intellectual property, and if what your patent covers truly differentiates you in the market against the high cost of patenting and the higher cost of litigating.

A good case-study of where patents went awry in this market was when Futuremotion (onewheel) sued Changzhou. FutureMotion actually won an injunction against the Chinese company partially shutting down their sales operations here in the U.S., but maintaining the suit was so costly they eventually dropped it. Hindsight is 20/20 but those knockoffs probably weren’t a huge threat and spending all that money on a patent suit would have been better spent on marketing and R&D.

@Jedi I never even knew that existed. Thats kind of crazy that patent is out there. Did a little search and it looks like he’s sued over his patents a couple of times already as Chase Boards. I love that image in the patent - the original sk8squad member in the flesh.

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@guyguy it seems like he’s related to fiik boards also: https://insight.rpxcorp.com/litigation_documents/11515242

Crazy, whose next? Is he going to sue carvon? What about enertiuon? what about boosted? Seems crazy that this guy could launch lawyers at the leaders of the e-skate world?

seems like boosted applied for their own also: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20130081891A1/en?q=electric&q=skateboard

Anyone remember @onloop 3rd vlog?

He talks about hubs at 9:46 mainly saying the problem is heat. The main solution is bigger motors as we see in his hubs right now. I think the hanger is just a secondary add on to further reduce heat.

And boy was Jason right!

Also his dog at 12:08 is so cute! Bring back some vlogs Jason :smile:

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Yeah, altered boards too.

A lot of the newer patents (like boosted) reference Finkle’s patent and differentiate. I’m sure the venture funded brands like Boosted and Acton have their eye on this Sword of Damocles.

It’s not rocket science. When it comes to motors, size matters. Who ever creates thee biggest motor, will have the most powerful motor.

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Also bigger=less current so less heat

not sure if this came before or after Carvon created the direct-drive but Justin from Grin Technologies (Ebike company out of Vancouver CA) created a similar design prototype: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxB2j-egWcQ , fast forward to about 33 min mark and you’ll see it on the rack there .

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Hey I remember those early designs…what happened to the adjustable angles on those trucks? Not strong enough or just a cost issue?

Wow that’s really cool. I have looked into a lot of Elmore’s stuff but never knew he was into skateboards. Also his weight distribution to control the board seems awesome and also seems to work really well. Would be perfect for cruiser boards.

I think carvon is at the point in their game where they can survive on brand alone. Sure people could try and replicate it, but at the end of the day you want to go to the person who has a tried and tested product, Carvon’s problem is they can’t make enough fast enough!!:joy::joy:

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