Best of both world mixing li-ion and lipo

screenshot of my single motor bench amp draw test, you can see it peaks at 56 but I put a lot of presure. I plan on doing dual motor, so I say 80-100amp is probably a guide line. Also I live in san francisco which have some steep hills.

that means you will also need to switch in the bldc bat min(regen) setting which I don’t think you can change vesc on the fly.

Running dual motors doesn’t double the load, it devides the load between the motors. So you have 23a peak per motor

You should never mix batteries of different chemistry

Again, it depends on the internal resistance of the battery packs. If the resistance is not the same (and it will not be), then the packs will not provide the same amps. The lipo with the higher C rating should have lower resistance and will provide more amps.
So would say that if you are within the limits of the lipo then you are safe. You might deteriorate your lions, but that’s not so bad if they are old and used already…

In E-skate you can cheap out on a lot of things… but not the battery. Just buy this and youre fine.

And follow my thread

there you go for about $100 you get a 177 WH pack which is 1.77 times larger than boosted board.

2 Likes

Please consider this: The C rating of a battery does not limit the current load that you can put on it. It only tells you how much load you can safely put on it. So, if you put low C rated li-ions together with high C rated Lipos and try to put a high amp load on them, you will have a recipe for disaster. Because the Lipos and the li-ions will be exposed to the same high current regardless of there C rating.

Is that how it works? I’ve also thought of an analogy where the current is like water being blocked by a gate, and completely opening the gate is the full discharge rate of the battery. You’re saying that a controller can attempt to pull more than the rated discharge of the battery?

Amps are not provided by the battery. Amps is the measurement of current flowing through the circuit. Starting at the pos side of the battery and ending at the neg side of the battery. And the current flows equally through every component of that circuit.

Yes, that is what I’m saying. A good example is when you short the battery which flows enough current through it to make it explode.

Ah okay. I just assumed that shorting it would just produce the discharge current on the wire and since the energy has nowhere to go, it turns to heat.

The C rating does not protect the battery. It only give you a guideline.

1 Like

Why do you feel that you need 100A draw? We rarely exceed 30A-40A continuous draw on an esk8.

1 Like

With all due respect here @Namasaki I have to disagree. Now I’m arguing just for the sake of it :slight_smile:

When components are connected in parallel, current does not flow equally. And yes, the battery provides the amps (current).

I fully agree that a battery can deliver more amps than their C rating, but it’s not good for them and might event destroy them. Never said anything else.
Below I tried to make a somewhat simplified diagram.

  • Let’s assume the motor has to provide 1000 Watts in order to move the rider forward.
  • Let’s assume the batteries both have 6 * 3,7 Volts = 22,2 Volts
  • Then 45 Amps will have to flow into the controller (I’m neglecting inefficiency here) (P = U * I)

Where will these Amps come from? The batteries will have to provide them. If they can’t, power will drop. If the batteries can, they will provide the current, regardless if this is within their C rating or not. Now how is the amps provisioning split up between the packs? Here the internal resistance comes into play. Assumption is that the internal resistance of a Lipo cell is around 6mOhm per cell so 36mOhm in total.
Now the internal resistance of one 18650 cell is around 100mOhm, so for a 6s1p pack its 600mOhm and for a 6s4p pack it’s 150mOhm (paralleling resistance decreases overall resistance).

The total current (45Amps) will come from the two sources in the same ration 36:150 as their internal resistance. So the lipo will provide 34,2A and the 18650 pack will provide 10,8A or 2,7A per cell (10,8A / 4)

Both battery packs are within their limits in this example and we are safe!

If the motor has to provide 2000 Watts, this is double the current for the batteries. The lipo might still be ok providing 68,4A because it is within its C rating. The 18650 pack will also provide its needed share of the amps and it will provide 21,8A. So this is 5,6A per Cell. If this is above their C rating they will deteriorate quickly (its probably not above their max current, especially not for a short time). They will not explode, just not last forever.

The example should be very close to reality, in real life you could measure the internal resistance of your batteries e.g. using a good battery charger.

Btw, the actual electrons flow from minus to plus but that doesn’t matter. btw2, I simplified some things here, e.g. the voltage drops while the batteries provide the amps by the value R(i) * I = U(i), so if power demand stays the same the current will increases in order to compensate that btw3, internal resistance increases with the age of a battery, this leads to more heat which deteriorates the battery and increases their internal resistance, which lead to more heat, … btw4, I stop here because nobody will be reading this anyway … :wink:

4 Likes

Nope, your comment is very informative! I still learn new things everyday.

So thumbs up for the nice answer! :thumbsup:

Btw5 I read the whole thing. I’ll have to respond later because my work shift starts now. Btw6 I love a good argument. This is how we get to the bottom of things.

Direct current or DC electricity is the continuous movement of electrons from negative to positive through a conducting material such as a metal wire. A DC circuit is necessary to allow the current or steam of electrons to flow. In a circuit, the direction of the current is opposite the flow of electrons.Jan 11, 2004 Direct Current (DC) Electricity - Physics Lessons: School for … www.school-for-champions.com › science CURRENT FLOWS FROM POS TO NEG

The problem with this drawing is that the Esc is going to try to draw equal current from the Lipo and the Li-ion. 34a. If the Li-ion can only handle 10a, the rest of the current will turn into heat. So the li-ion will get hot in this situation and if you do it too much, the battery will fail.